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Thread: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

  1. #16
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Assuming Harang is let go (which is highly likely), I disagree.

    That leaves you with
    Leake, Wood, Ceuto, Volquez, Bailey/Chapman.

    I am willing to bet that at least one of those young pitchers underperforms Arroyo.. In fact, I am sure Bronson will be better than Leake next year.
    I'm talking about 2012 and beyond. Between the guys listed below, I think the Reds can find five pitchers who can perform equal to or better than a 35-year-old Bronson Arroyo at a much cheaper price. I could be way off on that, but if the money used to retain Arroyo beyond 2011 means having to part with arbitration eligible guys like Bruce/Cueto/Votto/Volquez/Masset/Hanigan, I'm going to flip a lid.

    Mike Leake
    Travis Wood
    Johnny Cueto
    Edinson Volquez
    Homer Bailey
    Aroldis Chapman
    Daryl Thompson
    Matt Klinker
    Matt Maloney
    Sam LeCure
    Micah Owings
    Dallas Buck
    Scott Carroll
    Matt Fairel
    Mark Serrano

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  3. #17
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    I've seen that with many it's a wait and see attitude with Bronson and that there's no need to worry about it now.That's fine but what if he does have a great season next year?Are the Reds going to even consider him with all of the younger and less expensive(probably more talented as well)options available to them.I agree that the idea that we could get him a little cheaper now is at least worth discussing.

    All of that said, it appears that extending Bronson now at a discount isn't much of an option.

    http://blog.prorumors.com/2010/07/ru...for-next-year/

  4. #18
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Reds would be nuts to extend him. You make a decision on whether to pick up the option for next year after the season. There's no rush. At this point I probably pick up the option.

    And if he is lights-out in 2011 and wants a long term deal? Then by all means.... offer him arb, wait for him to turn it down, and collect some draft picks.

  5. #19
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    If we make the playoffs this year I buy out his option immediately after the season and put that money to good use elsewhere (like extensions for certain guys). If we don't make the playoffs I might be swayed to pick up the option for one more season but that is where I would draw the line for Bronson.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  6. #20
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    If we make the playoffs this year I buy out his option immediately after the season and put that money to good use elsewhere (like extensions for certain guys). If we don't make the playoffs I might be swayed to pick up the option for one more season but that is where I would draw the line for Bronson.
    I agree. As much as I do like having a guy who eats innings and keeps us in the games he is due a lot of money and we have a lot of pitching right now. I think the money could be used to keep other players here and fill in a few holes. That being said I'm glad he's on the team this year and if the Reds made the playoffs he is a nice arm to have go out there.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  7. #21
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    The way I look at it I would be against a contract extension for Arroyo. And as is now I am wavering on whether or not to pick up his option. What I once thought was a sure thing just a couple of weeks ago I just don't know about that. Here is the way I think the rotation will shake out next year.

    Cueto - Will be in the rotation I just hope he takes his game to that next level. The level where he is consistent and dominates most of his starts. He may be the closest thing to a TOR the Reds have seen in a long time.

    Volquez - You would have to imagine that he will be fully healed from TJ surgery and back to 08 form. Maybe not as good as the first half of 08 but some one who belongs in the rotation.

    Leake - See no reason Leake isn't in the rotation. You would think that he would be limited to 190-200 innings next season and durability would be such an issue.

    Wood - I think he has earned a spot in this rotation and I think you will see him continue to improve throughout next season.

    Then you have the likes of Bailey and Chapman who you just don't know what you are going to get. Will Chapman be a starter or reliever. The same questions can be asked about Homer. It really isn't a bad problem to have for the 5th rotation spot.

    Malone and LeCure aren't bad guys to have in your organization as 6th and 7th starter types. Neither is going to be awful and will be servicable pitching in the 5th spot if a starter goes down with an injury.

    Then it goes back to Bronson. He is what he is. A middle of the rotation starer who eats innings like its his job. That was very valuable to the Reds over the past 2-3 seasons because of a young and inexperienced starting rotation. But now the question begs to be asked is Bronson worth $9M of payroll flexibility. Can Walt improve the club more by picking up Bronson's option as opposed to spending $9M in the FA market or trade market.

  8. #22
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    If, and who knows if they will or should, the Reds pick Arroyo up beyond next year he will be 35, No thanks.
    Go Gators!

  9. #23
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    The only way I extend him is if he takes a Rolen like contract and wants 2 yr $16MM or so and rip up the 2011 option.

    But I guess that's out.
    Last edited by edabbs44; 07-27-2010 at 06:39 PM.

  10. #24
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    I really enjoy watching Arroyo pitch, but I want no part of him at the sort of salary he'll require moving forward.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #25
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I'm talking about 2012 and beyond. Between the guys listed below, I think the Reds can find five pitchers who can perform equal to or better than a 35-year-old Bronson Arroyo at a much cheaper price.
    Yes, I agree that there might be a money crunch in 2012 and beyond.
    It's no problem finding someone cheaper than Arroyo, but after seeing Jack Armstrong and many other pitchers vanish after strong starts, there's some value in a proven guy like Arroyo. Not to mention, it's extremely difficult to keep a young staff completely healthy, as Volquez's injury shows.

    Plus signing Arroyo gives the team the option to trade a talented young pitcher for a good SS or other need.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  12. #26
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Interesting that some people are opposed to picking up his option next year as well.
    I can see the arguement for not extending him, but IMO, his option year is a bargain.
    We aren't going to find a comparable pitcher like that on the FA market.
    I guess it's possible that there might be better value in spending Bronson's 2011 salary in a position player (or anywhere other than Bronson).

    I guess I don't see the starting pitching for 2011 as being that deep.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #27
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Arroyo would gain a no-trade clause early in 2012 thanks to the 10-5 rights rule. If you sign Arroyo to an extension, you need to have a lot of faith in him.

  14. #28
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Interesting that some people are opposed to picking up his option next year as well.
    I can see the arguement for not extending him, but IMO, his option year is a bargain.
    We aren't going to find a comparable pitcher like that on the FA market.
    I guess it's possible that there might be better value in spending Bronson's 2011 salary in a position player (or anywhere other than Bronson).

    I guess I don't see the starting pitching for 2011 as being that deep.
    Its not so much that Bronson isn't worth that kind of money, it is whether or not he is worth it for the Reds. Are the Reds better with Bronson on the team at $11M or better off without him on the team but $9M to spend in FA?

  15. #29
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    We are talking about the 2012 season and beyond.

    I think how Arroyo pitches the rest of this season will determine whether we exercise our option on him for 2011.

    How he pitches in 2011 will determine whether we offer him a contract for 2012.

    Since we don't know how he will finish out the year, or how well he will pitch in 2011 (assuming we exercise our option), I think it very premature as the majority of the data that will be evaluated in making the decision is unknown at this time.

    And if it's premature to offer one, why spend much time considering it?

    I think we may well be talking about the same thing here anyway.
    I think that's how the Reds should approach it but I am amazed that Bronson doesn't see it that way. He thinks he's set up for a big payday however I think he ought to be open to a nice discount if the Reds extend him now because a lot can happen between now and 2012.

    However I do not think the Reds need to extend him at any price. I think they should either take his option or pay his buyout, offer arbitration & take the draft picks. Right now I'm leaning towards picking up his option

  16. #30
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Wow, guess I'm in the minority here -- all Arroyo costs is money. He's a known item, he's the very definition of a reliable starter, he's virtually a lock to throw 200 innings every season, and he seems like the type of pitcher who will retain effectiveness late into his career.

    Why wouldn't you want a crafty veteran in your locker room teaching the young kids the mental aspects of pitching? How to set a hitter up for a pitch, how to utilize scouting reports, what to do on off days to keep yourself in pitching shape, what to do in the offseason, etc.

    Logjam of young pitching? Fantastic -- sell the surplus for stuff your farm system isn't producing (SS, looking your direction).

    Keeping Arroyo around is a no-brainer to me.
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