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Thread: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

  1. #31
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Why wouldn't you want a crafty veteran in your locker room teaching the young kids the mental aspects of pitching?
    Money.

    MLB isn't like the federal gov't where they can spend money they don't have. If you keep Bronson it could cost you in other areas like extentions for Votto, Cueto and Bruce

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  3. #32
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Its not so much that Bronson isn't worth that kind of money, it is whether or not he is worth it for the Reds. Are the Reds better with Bronson on the team at $11M or better off without him on the team but $9M to spend in FA?
    It's just my opinion, but the Reds will never be in the running for elite FAs..
    Occasionally they might be in the running for a player of Bronson's calibar (who I think is at least above average at this level of performance, I think most agree on that).

    I don't think Bronson would redo his 2011 year to take less money, but I think he'd be open to a reasonable offer for an extension.. In other words, he's not going to ask for CC Sabathia money.

    I have no problem letting Harang walk after this year. I expect that. But if Bronson is cut loose after this year, I doubt the team ever becomes competitive. At some point you have to keep your good players and get out of the John Allen mindset..

    Also, I think bringing Arroyo back would help us recruit more FAs.. Sure, money might be tight, but most FAs want to play on a team with at least a chance of winning.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  4. #33
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    It's just my opinion, but the Reds will never be in the running for elite FAs..
    Occasionally they might be in the running for a player of Bronson's calibar (who I think is at least above average at this level of performance, I think most agree on that).

    I don't think Bronson would redo his 2011 year to take less money, but I think he'd be open to a reasonable offer for an extension.. In other words, he's not going to ask for CC Sabathia money.

    I have no problem letting Harang walk after this year. I expect that. But if Bronson is cut loose after this year, I doubt the team ever becomes competitive. At some point you have to keep your good players and get out of the John Allen mindset..

    Also, I think bringing Arroyo back would help us recruit more FAs.. Sure, money might be tight, but most FAs want to play on a team with at least a chance of winning.
    If you mean the top 2-3 FA on the market then I agree with you. I also agree that those are the players more than likely a team like the Reds want to stay away from. A top tier FA would take up too much of the payroll and are also would be locked up into their twilight years.

    Not so sure how it is still the John Allen mindset questioning whether or not a 34 year old Bronson Arroyo is worth his contract, especially when the Reds look to be deep and loaded in the SP department. The question that I am asking is can Walt Jocketty (not John Allen) improve the Reds more with $9M in the FA market than what Bronson adds to the team?

  5. #34
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    To tell you the truth, I don't know. My first reaction is to take the club option and then wait and see. Bronson is smoke a mirrors. Always has been and always will be. When he's good, he's good and when he's bad, he's bad. He's not a $10 million pitcher, but he gets the job done. With the arms we have coming up, is it worth keeping him around? I don't know. I do know that giving big money to guys like Arroyo is insane.

  6. #35
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    To tell you the truth, I don't know. My first reaction is to take the club option and then wait and see. Bronson is smoke a mirrors. Always has been and always will be. When he's good, he's good and when he's bad, he's bad. He's not a $10 million pitcher, but he gets the job done. With the arms we have coming up, is it worth keeping him around? I don't know. I do know that giving big money to guys like Arroyo is insane.
    I think he is. If you took his stat lines over the past 4 years, and said to all MLB teams, would you pay 40 million for 4 years if you knew you were certain to get those numbers...I think teams would be running over each other to get him.

    Just my opinion, but in that sense, yes he is a 10 million/yr pitcher.

  7. #36
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    To tell you the truth, I don't know. My first reaction is to take the club option and then wait and see. Bronson is smoke a mirrors. Always has been and always will be. When he's good, he's good and when he's bad, he's bad. He's not a $10 million pitcher, but he gets the job done. With the arms we have coming up, is it worth keeping him around? I don't know. I do know that giving big money to guys like Arroyo is insane.
    If Volquez can pull it together and this team does make the playoffs, I think Arroyo has less a chance because between Chapman and Bailey, this rotation is full. And cheap.
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  8. #37
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post

    Not so sure how it is still the John Allen mindset questioning whether or not a 34 year old Bronson Arroyo is worth his contract, especially when the Reds look to be deep and loaded in the SP department. The question that I am asking is can Walt Jocketty (not John Allen) improve the Reds more with $9M in the FA market than what Bronson adds to the team?
    I met picking up his 2011 option.. To me, that's a no brainer. I know others disagree.

    I can see the arguement that extending Arroyo beyond 2011 has some risk.

    IMO, Bronson is worth 9 million easily.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #38
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Bronson Arroyo on a one-year, $9mm contract sounds good to me. Bronson Arroyo on a five-year, $55mm contract with a no-trade clause scares me, though. Just look at the kinds of deals Gil Meche and Kyle Lohse signed. It might be good for a while, but it's probably not worth the risk.

  10. #39
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Bronson Arroyo on a one-year, $9mm contract sounds good to me. Bronson Arroyo on a five-year, $55mm contract with a no-trade clause scares me, though. Just look at the kinds of deals Gil Meche and Kyle Lohse signed. It might be good for a while, but it's probably not worth the risk.
    Bronson will be playing on a $11M contract. The $9M takes into consideration the $2M the Reds would owe him in a buy out.

  11. #40
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Bronson will be playing on a $11M contract. The $9M takes into consideration the $2M the Reds would owe him in a buy out.
    I know. For all intensive purposes, I see him getting paid $13mm this year and a $9mm club option for next year.

  12. #41
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Picking up his option for next year is a no brainer. Take one more year to evaluate the staff you have on hand, and if you determine you have enough guys to replace his innings, let him walk after 2011. If you are still uncertain that Cueto, Volquez, Wood, Leake, and Bailey can handle the innings they'll need to handle as full time starters, then work out some sort of long term deal with BA. He's not much of a risk at all, as he has zero injury history, and doesn't rely on a overpowering fastball (which is something that may decline with age).

  13. #42
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Bronson Arroyo on a five-year, $55mm contract with a no-trade clause scares me, though.
    At his age such a contract would be borderline insane.

    Everybody gets old, I don't care what it is you throw, the Moyer and Maddox's of the world are rare.
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  14. #43
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I know. For all intensive purposes, I see him getting paid $13mm this year and a $9mm club option for next year.
    That option escalates to $13 Million based on IP. Considering that he goes deep in games and never misses a start, he'll be a $13 Million guy next year.

    Bringing Arroyo back should be the minimum that they do for 2011. I'd rather they pass and use the money for the TOR.
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  15. #44
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Money.

    MLB isn't like the federal gov't where they can spend money they don't have.
    Don't tell that to the Texas Rangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Bronson Arroyo on a one-year, $9mm contract sounds good to me. Bronson Arroyo on a five-year, $55mm contract with a no-trade clause scares me, though. Just look at the kinds of deals Gil Meche and Kyle Lohse signed. It might be good for a while, but it's probably not worth the risk.
    I don't think anyone - even Bronson - is thinking he going to ask for a 5/$55M deal. If he does, he's going to be singing for his supper.
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  16. #45
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson: should he be signed to a long term contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I don't think anyone - even Bronson - is thinking he going to ask for a 5/$55M deal. If he does, he's going to be singing for his supper.
    I could be way off on this one, but I see Arroyo as a top-five starting pitcher on the free agent market, and there's a good chance he'll climb up that ranking as extensions happen late in the season. Couple that with the fact that Arroyo has been pitching well, things are looking pretty good for him. Oh, and he has zero injury history. You can't put a price on that because every starting pitcher that hits the market, short of Jon Garlad, has a history of injuries.

    Randy Wolf had an ERA+ of 103 for his career at the age of 33 (about Arroyo's age), and he got a three-year deal with almost $10M per year despite having had arm surgery. Arroyo has an ERA+ of 107 despite pitching half his games in GABP (not to mention his time in the AL East)

    Five years/$55M? Okay, maybe not. Four years/$40M? No problem imo.


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