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Thread: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

  1. #1
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    Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Westbrook become a very solid starter for the Cards but I'm so happy to see Ludwick go. I dread seeing him against the Reds and now it's only three more games this year.
    Ludwick
    .887 career OPS vs Cin, .921 at GABP

    Westbrook
    3.86 career ERA vs Cin. but with a 1.48 WHIP and a .297 BAA so he's had some luck.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    I think Ludwick is more productive than Westbrook, but with John Jay around and Suppan and Hawksworth in the rotation, this team makes them better.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think Ludwick is more productive than Westbrook, but with John Jay around and Suppan and Hawksworth in the rotation, this team makes them better.
    It makes them better if Jay keeps hitting the way he has. But given what he did in the minors, I am not sure that's realistic. We already know he's living vicariously through a .446 BABIP--which is, of course, highly unsustainable.

    Jay is a nice, solid hitter. But I can't help but think the Cards are losing some offensive punch to acquire an OK starter.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    It makes them better if Jay keeps hitting the way he has. But given what he did in the minors, I am not sure that's realistic. We already know he's living vicariously through a .446 BABIP--which is, of course, highly unsustainable.

    Jay is a nice, solid hitter. But I can't help but think the Cards are losing some offensive punch to acquire an OK starter.
    You may be right, but the upgrade from Suppan to Westbrook > the drop from Ludwick to Jay. Overall the cards improved. The Reds may need to make a similar move that is a loss on the surface but upgrades the team overall.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    You may be right, but the upgrade from Suppan to Westbrook > the drop from Ludwick to Jay. Overall the cards improved. The Reds may need to make a similar move that is a loss on the surface but upgrades the team overall.
    That's possible. I just think when Jay goes into a slump soon, and I truly believe he's due, the Cardinals better hope Westbrook delivers on every ounce of that 4.41 FIP going forward. Otherwise they'll find themselves questioning if it was worth it.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    That's possible. I just think when Jay goes into a slump soon, and I truly believe he's due, the Cardinals better hope Westbrook delivers on every ounce of that 4.41 FIP going forward. Otherwise they'll find themselves questioning if it was worth it.
    Lots of OF will get through waivers if Jay falters. Westbrook is probably better than they could do for the rotation by waiting.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    If Jay falters, we have Allen Craig. Not sure what I think about this trade yet. I like Ludwick, but he will get really expensive soon. Jay and Craig were blocked by Ludwick, so this trade will open up a door and give them both a chance to win the spot. Jay has been on fire, but I really would like to see what Craig can do.

    It will be interesting to see what Dave Duncan can do with Westbrook as well.

  9. #8
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life View Post
    If Jay falters, we have Allen Craig. Not sure what I think about this trade yet. I like Ludwick, but he will get really expensive soon. Jay and Craig were blocked by Ludwick, so this trade will open up a door and give them both a chance to win the spot. Jay has been on fire, but I really would like to see what Craig can do.

    It will be interesting to see what Dave Duncan can do with Westbrook as well.
    These are the kinds of comments that people make when teams are going into rebuilding mode -- not the kind they make in the middle of a pennant race. Opening the door for unproven rookies in the middle of a race, after trading one of your most reliable hitters, is not the kind of leap of faith teams should make in August. And if they do, they better be darn sure the prospects they've opened the door for are capable getting through said door.

    Craig specifically has better credentials to make it long term, but will he actually be given that chance this year? Even if he is--how smart is it to count on him?
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    These are the kinds of comments that people make when teams are going into rebuilding mode -- not the kind they make in the middle of a pennant race. Opening the door for unproven rookies in the middle of a race, after trading one of your most reliable hitters, is not the kind of leap of faith teams should make in August. And if they do, they better be darn sure the prospects they've opened the door for are capable getting through said door.

    Craig specifically has better credentials to make it long term, but will he actually be given that chance this year? Even if he is--how smart is it to count on him?
    Smarter than counting on Suppan and Hawksworth.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Craig specifically has better credentials to make it long term, but will he actually be given that chance this year? Even if he is--how smart is it to count on him?
    I like Jay better than Craig. He at least has more than one tool.

    Criag should be in the AL where he could play his best position, DH.

  12. #11
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    These are the kinds of comments that people make when teams are going into rebuilding mode -- not the kind they make in the middle of a pennant race. Opening the door for unproven rookies in the middle of a race, after trading one of your most reliable hitters, is not the kind of leap of faith teams should make in August.
    I would say that you were right if the Cardinals were trading for prospects, but the Cardinals traded to fill a hole in their rotation. Ludwick had an amazing year 2 years ago. Last year he didn't do so great. He is having a better year this year than he did last year, but I don't think the Cards will be hurt without him.

    Allen Craig has been up a couple of times this year, so he will get a shot as well as will Jay. I don't think the Cards are counting on any one rookie. LaRussa probably feels that he can replace Ludwick's bat with a combination of any number of players including Jay. Ludwick was our 3rd best outfield. He isn't the power threat that he was 2 years ago. We need Westbrook more than we need Ludwick.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Losing Ludwick is a non-issue IMO. The Cards needed to get a starter. If in house options falter there will be plenty of Luke Scott/Jose Guillen types for the taking on waivers. They will be able to backfill Ludwick. The rotation hole was huge and getting bigger as Garcia starts to falter.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Losing Ludwick is a non-issue IMO. The Cards needed to get a starter. If in house options falter there will be plenty of Luke Scott/Jose Guillen types for the taking on waivers. They will be able to backfill Ludwick. The rotation hole was huge and getting bigger as Garcia starts to falter.
    With Pujols' questionable health, I'd say they have offense concerns too. As far as waivers are concerned, Cards are going to have a lot of talent blocked before it falls to them.

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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life View Post
    I We need Westbrook more than we need Ludwick.
    Agreed.

    But you needed both.

    The Cards didn't have the pitching prospect (they weren't moving Miller) to get what Clevelend wanted, so they reluctantly traded Ludwick to the Pads to get the propsect Cleveland wanted.

    But with Rasmus slumping badly, the Cards are suddenly relying on Jay to play fulltime and for Craig to contribute. I'm not saying they can't, but Ludwick would have expected to play, more or less, as a regular for the rest of the year.

    That's a defintite downgrade in the OF anyway you cut it.

    But a bigger upgrade to the rotation.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cards get Westbrook, ship Ludwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    With Pujols' questionable health, I'd say they have offense concerns too. As far as waivers are concerned, Cards are going to have a lot of talent blocked before it falls to them.
    I think the offense might be an issue. But Freese will be back soon and Felo can play 2B with Schumaker in RF if all else fails. Nick Stavinoha is rehabbing as well. They won't miss Ludwick as much as they would an arm.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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