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Thread: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

  1. #91
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Nice, fair take by the Sporting News.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-in-10-14-days
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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  3. #92
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    UK just needs to walk away from Kanter,IMO. I don't know what is being said is true or not but quite honestly I doubt anyone knows the full truth as to whether he has accepted money or not from the Turkey pro leagues. The risks far outweigh the gains with him. I hope they just wish him well and send back to Turkey so he can get ready fro the NBA next season.
    Like someone else said its better this happens now than in March or April. I really don't want to go through forfeiting games because you find out later he has been paid or reimbursed a huge amount of money.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Nice, fair take by the Sporting News.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-in-10-14-days
    Good piece by DeCourcey.

    I'm torn on the Kanter issue. I want to see him in a UK uniform, because we need him and he's the best freshman big man in the country, IMO. By season's end he may be the best big man in all of college basketball. Surrounded by the kind of talent Calipari brings in, Kanter could be a monster.

    But I also would be concerned about there being a "rest of the story" type scenario, in which we learn more later, and then Kanter is declared ineligible after he's already played a season for us. He's more than worth taking a risk on, but I don't want any scenario in which UK is made to forfeit victories.

    The Kanter family has plenty of money, so he wouldn't have needed his Turkish team to pay him, other than normal expenses. And there's plenty of reason for the Turkish team to be vindictive and lie about the situation - because they no longer have the kid playing for them. So who knows what the actual truth is here. I'll just be glad when a ruling is made and we can move forward, with or without him.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    I've read that a) his family is rich (no need to be paid) and b) for a while now, his goal has been to come to the US to play NCAA and then go to the NBA

    So why would he jeopardize that?

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Nice, fair take by the Sporting News.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-in-10-14-days
    The one question the NCAA really must ask is this: if Kanter werenít committed to being a collegian, why would he be here? Thereís plenty of money available to him to play for Fenerbahce or another club. Heís gone to an awful lot of trouble to play college basketball. To be a pro, heíd merely have to return home.

    That's a bit naive of a take in my opinion, obviously Kanter has a lot to gain from playing for Kentucky(incrased marketability for his NBA draft stock) and the fact that whatever team drafts him won't have to go through the whole Rickey Rubio situation.

    Now as you pointed out the guy at Fabernace has all the reason to trash him, he's never going back to that club, on the flip side though, Kanter has every reason to lie if he did take additional money.

    So that leaves it to the NCAA to investigate and if they find enough evidence to declare him ineligible. In all honesty, the Turkish team needs better bookkeepers, you'd think it would be pretty easy to point out exactly how much they've paid him.
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  7. #96
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    WOW.

    http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=59854

    Matt Jones being pretty useful for once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    WOW.

    http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=59854

    Matt Jones being pretty useful for once.
    Okay WMR, you and I have exchanged points on motivations and reasons for skepticism, I hope I've at the very least proven to anyone that reads with an open mind, that I have been and am continually skeptical of anything coming of these charges. I certainly don't take the Turkish clubs words at face value, but also the same test should be applied to the player, to UK, to everyone involved.

    So with all that said, Of course a new assistant coach will try to say he was taken out of context. It was clear that he didn't want to speak with Thamel in the quotes, and it's even more clear that he has every reason to say he was being misrepresented.

    He said what he said which isn't really damning one way or another unless you're really reaching. But the one thing he doesn't want to do is prove to be a liability to his new employer with regards to attracting talented players. And essentially if he looks like a "snitch" it could hurt his relationships with AAU coaches and "ahem advisors" and he'll be a liability to his current employer.

    My main argument back and forth with you is that if we're to apply skepticism to what those accusing the UK players, shouldn't we apply equal skepticism to everyone who says something in support of the UK player?

    It's as though whenever someone says something about a UK player or Coach Cal, it is important to always always question the motives, ethics, and biases involved. But whatever Coach Cal says, or a player, or someone speaking in support of a player, you want to take at face value.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  9. #98
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    For those keeping score at home, that's now TWO articles about UK written by Pete Thamel and published by the NYT where a source within the article later claimed they were misquoted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    For those keeping score at home, that's now TWO articles about UK written by Pete Thamel and published by the NYT where a source within the article later claimed they were misquoted.
    Taken from the comments of the KSR article;

    HMM Says:
    September 8th, 2010 at 9:01 am
    More than likely he said exactly what he was quoted as saying and didnít realize how it sounded. He clearly was trying not to talk about it. Just didnít do a good job.


    But I've already said too much. Not a vendetta against Kentucky, just hate people hating on the newspaper profession.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  11. #100
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  12. #101
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    You do realize you're quoting two web sites dedicated to Kentucky athletics, right?

    Just saying, if the Turkish guy has questionable motives, then these guys don't have much room for belief, either.

    If you're questioning the NY Times, you've got to question less reliable sources, yes?
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  13. #102
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    You do realize you're quoting two web sites dedicated to Kentucky athletics, right?

    Just saying, if the Turkish guy has questionable motives, then these guys don't have much room for belief, either.

    If you're questioning the NY Times, you've got to question less reliable sources, yes?
    Enes Kanter is 18, right?

    Still waiting for your verification on that.

    As to your latest post, as I posted earlier, I am not trying nor am I interested in trying to convince you skeptics of anything. I bring stuff to this thread that I think a UK FAN might be interested in reading. Seriously, give it a rest with the attempted 'gotcha' stuff, please. I really hope you're capable of discerning the differences between an opinion piece in a blog type setting versus a piece of supposed 'serious journalism.' Maybe not? Seems pretty obvious to me. One is about opinions, the other is supposed to be about FACTS. Of course, facts and quotes seem to be rather malleable when they're in Pete Thamel's hands.

    BOTH of Pete Thamel's articles concerning UK have had a source later claim that they were misquoted. Focus on that if you can.
    Last edited by WMR; 09-09-2010 at 12:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  14. #103
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Per MM, Darnell Dodson's career at UK is finished. He will not live in the lodge this year and will not be on scholarship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  15. #104
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Newest KSR blog on Kanter situation...

    http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=59955

    — My concern for Kanter’s eligibility is the effect the publicity could have on the situation. As Mike Decourcy said on the radio with me today, the actual facts in the Thamel story were not new to the NCAA or UK. But now the public knows those facts and the perception (aided by shows like PTI and Around the Horn taking superficial looks at the story) is that Kanter is a pro. Whether that makes the NCAA feel it has to justify the decision more is a question that I really wonder about now, even more so than the actual facts. Before the Thamel story, I was confident he would be deemed eligible at some point. Now the question is whether the NCAA will make the same decision with the public watching.

    — An interesting perspective on the whole thing came from this article by a former pro player in Europe, the thesis of which is that having played in Europe, the author doesnt trust the Turkish team to tell anyone the truth. Because the team has an incentive to lie and the dealings in the Euro League are notoriously bad (with players often not being paid what they are owed, etc), there is a huge distrust factor from players about all actions of the teams. Thus trusting the Turkish team in this case would be misguided according to the author. A very good read.

    — In our neck of the woods, the big story was the accusation of quote fixing by NY Times author Pete Thamel from the Assistant Coach he quoted in the piece. Rodney Crawford talked to me late last night and said that the quotes attributed to him were made about another player, not Kanter, and then used by Thamel to reflect on Kanter. The charge is a serious one and has gotten some national attention, with Gregg Doyel, the Yahoo College Basketball writer and others picking it up. It also had some traction on the college section of USA Today, which wrote about the controversy as well. As of now, Thamel and the Times havent answered the criticism. Our movement to try to make that happen heats up a bit tomorrow.
    The bolded part is a question I asked myself in this thread last night...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  16. #105
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    — Speaking of media, a local writer got himself into this fight in ways that he probably wished in hindsight had never happened. John Clay took a break from telling people to get off his lawn and turn down their music by going after KSR on two different occasions, in a Live Blog and on his Sidelines section of the Herald Leader website. He suggested that the potential Thamel issues with the quotes were no big deal and that the KSR stories werent important because we were a “cheerleader site” for UK. This of course led to a great deal of criticism and soon thereafter, Clay stopped talking and became silent on the subject. What is interesting is that today likely brought his blog the highest number of hits and comments on the site in its history, showcasing how the tables have turned. It used to be that we went after the HL and other entities to get attention and traffic and now he has to do it in order for people to read his site. Ultimately it is actually somewhat sad that Clay’s natural tendency to take up for his fellow writer would overshadow his journalistic integrity on the issue of using quotes correctly, but we shouldnt be surprised. If this blog has taught me one thing, it is that with a couple of exceptions (Doyel, Whitlock, etc), media doesnt go after other media. Anyone could have called as I did and checked up on the NY Times sources in their story. The HL didnt…instead it defended Thamel. What does that tell you about their priorities?
    So, so true. Media hacks more interested in defending their own hack brethren rather than finding the truth or doing the right thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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