Turn Off Ads?
Page 13 of 67 FirstFirst ... 3910111213141516172363 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 997

Thread: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

  1. #181
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,583

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    John Wall might of been labeled "special talents" but that was more because of the school he attended (Word of God is a new school and is shady) and most likely not because of his academic prowess, as evidenced by his 3.5 GPA while at Kentucky.
    Wrong.

    First, don't be so naive to think GPA as a high profile athlete is indicative of a student's abilities. At every major program I've ever heard of, these high-profile kids often have papers written for them, tutors practically doing their work and in some cases, professors seeing to it (either by choice or by pressure) they get a passing grade.

    Second, that's not the case. He was admitted in that capacity because it was the only way to get him through admissions. And this isn't guesswork being done.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #182
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Braintree, MA
    Posts
    2,097

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    The Eric Bledsoe story comes back to life. Is Pete Thamel still to blame?



    http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...terstitialskip
    The good news, of course, is there was no Final Four for UK this year. So if Bledsoe was ineligible, Calipari won't have to worry about having a Final Four wiped out at three different schools.

  4. #183
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,202

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Wrong.

    First, don't be so naive to think GPA as a high profile athlete is indicative of a student's abilities. At every major program I've ever heard of, these high-profile kids often have papers written for them, tutors practically doing their work and in some cases, professors seeing to it (either by choice or by pressure) they get a passing grade.

    Second, that's not the case. He was admitted in that capacity because it was the only way to get him through admissions. And this isn't guesswork being done.
    There's a logic missing though as to why would Wall get a good grade and the other basketball players didn't. After all, there was NO chance that Wall was coming back so it wouldn't have mattered if he had the Bluto Blutarsky GPA, but especially in the first semester there's no guarantee that Bledsoe and Cousins were going to be gone.(Well maybe Cousins.) and they received terrible grades. The terrible grades in fact made it harder for them to come back even if they had wanted to.

    If UK was sophisticated enough to pressure teachers and tutors into making sure John Wall got his grades, wouldn't it have made more sense to make sure Cousins, Bledsoe and the rest of the team got good grades too?

    Or maybe it was all part of their plot and we're just supposed to believe this.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  5. #184
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,583

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    There's a logic missing though as to why would Wall get a good grade and the other basketball players didn't. After all, there was NO chance that Wall was coming back so it wouldn't have mattered if he had the Bluto Blutarsky GPA, but especially in the first semester there's no guarantee that Bledsoe and Cousins were going to be gone.(Well maybe Cousins.) and they received terrible grades. The terrible grades in fact made it harder for them to come back even if they had wanted to.

    If UK was sophisticated enough to pressure teachers and tutors into making sure John Wall got his grades, wouldn't it have made more sense to make sure Cousins, Bledsoe and the rest of the team got good grades too?

    Or maybe it was all part of their plot and we're just supposed to believe this.
    The average fan is in for a rude awakening if they ever realized how dirty college basketball is behind the scenes. That means recruiting, grade altering, you name it.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #185
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Commonwealth
    Posts
    8,387

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    The Eric Bledsoe story comes back to life. Is Pete Thamel still to blame?



    http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...terstitialskip
    So kids with a C average can't get into college anymore?

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
    University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12
    Cincinnati Bengals - None
    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

  7. #186
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Panama City Beach
    Posts
    13,771

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    The average fan is in for a rude awakening if they ever realized how dirty college basketball is behind the scenes. That means recruiting, grade altering, you name it.
    No, we're not. You are acting very condescending for someone who really no one is disagreeing with. I know people who went to SU with Billy Owens and Derrick Coleman. Had some classes with each. Never saw either of them in class but once or twice. Even during tests. Billy Owens was driving around a red corvette in Syracuse the day after SU was eliminated. We all knew this car was not new that day but he'd had it for awhile from an agent or a rep of an agent. None of this is new and you aren't telling any of us anything we don't already know is going on.

    HOWEVER, you are accusing Wall of this and there is no evidence to support you. You just keep saying it goes on everywhere - no crap! But John Wall was a "special talent" based on his school. Word of God is not accredited. Therefore he had to clear admissions hurdles to get in and thus he was labeled special talent. It means nothing here - dude got a 3.5 while the rest of the team had a cum GPA of under 2.0!! If teachers, tutors, students, etc were giving him these things then why did they not give the rest of team same things? They had 4 guys drafted in top 20 so it wasn't like Wall was only one with talent so why only cheat for him while letting rest of team get grades Dan Qualye would be embarrassed about?

    Universities cheat. We can all agree about that. But you are claiming John Wall was a benefactor of said cheating and you have no proof with regards to him that its true and throwing out all universities cheat is not a fact that is relevant to this instance. Special Talent does not equate cheating. You need more than that
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

  8. #187
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,583

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    No, we're not. You are acting very condescending for someone who really no one is disagreeing with. I know people who went to SU with Billy Owens and Derrick Coleman. Had some classes with each. Never saw either of them in class but once or twice. Even during tests. Billy Owens was driving around a red corvette in Syracuse the day after SU was eliminated. We all knew this car was not new that day but he'd had it for awhile from an agent or a rep of an agent. None of this is new and you aren't telling any of us anything we don't already know is going on.

    HOWEVER, you are accusing Wall of this and there is no evidence to support you. You just keep saying it goes on everywhere - no crap! But John Wall was a "special talent" based on his school. Word of God is not accredited. Therefore he had to clear admissions hurdles to get in and thus he was labeled special talent. It means nothing here - dude got a 3.5 while the rest of the team had a cum GPA of under 2.0!! If teachers, tutors, students, etc were giving him these things then why did they not give the rest of team same things? They had 4 guys drafted in top 20 so it wasn't like Wall was only one with talent so why only cheat for him while letting rest of team get grades Dan Qualye would be embarrassed about?

    Universities cheat. We can all agree about that. But you are claiming John Wall was a benefactor of said cheating and you have no proof with regards to him that its true and throwing out all universities cheat is not a fact that is relevant to this instance. Special Talent does not equate cheating. You need more than that
    I'm claiming the stuff on Wall because of direct knowledge of his situation, not based on the idea that "it happens everywhere."

    He was admitted into Kentucky through the special talents program because it was the only way to get him admitted, and not just because of the curriculum at his school, but also because of (hint) test scores.

    EDIT: to amend an earlier post, I want to clarify that the special talents program is not just for special ed, but also other individuals possessing, as the name suggests, "special talents."

    Here is a good article explaining the loophole in athletics:

    http://uwire.com/2010/04/29/granting...caa-athletics/
    Last edited by Brutus; 09-14-2010 at 06:42 PM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #188
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    That loophole has gotten quite a few people into college, especially after Prop 48 came about.

    I'm sure of at least 11 guys over four colleges (UK, UL, WKU, and IU) that have been allowed into college because of it.

    I didn't know that about Wall, but it's not suprising.

    I disagree, however, about what Wall did after he came to UK. He worked. Others in that program didn't.

    Chris Marcus, the former WKU center, was a Prop 48 who had to sit out a year. Many, many kids across campus (and fans in Bowling Green) accused him of being ignorant and stupid.

    By the time he went pro, Chris was a 3.5 student who could hold his own discussing American Lit in a fairly tough class. He worked at it and got better. I suspect Wall did the same.

    Too, if this is only a Calipari Special, why in God's name wouldn't he have done this with his last Memphis PG?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  10. #189
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,118

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Every school gives "exceptions". In fact, Xavier basketball got a player last year because Purdue ran out of their self allotted exceptions and chose to cut that player loose over others. Xavier took him in with an exception.

    Giving a student an exception is not just an athletics thing. The amount of athletes that get admitted through those means is dwarfed by the "regular" students admitted because their parents donate money or because a certain student meets certain demos the alumni network likes to see. Just the way it is. If you actually got to analyze the credentials of every student accepted or denied at private universities, most people would have their jaw drop. That's life. I personally know of a kid admitted into one of the best schools in Ohio despite needing to get a GED because he was friends with the President's son. Kid ended up doing well in school because like a lot of kids he was just a lazy teen that grew up as he hit his 20s.

    When it comes to sports, the student only has to meet the NCAA standards. Who the school decides to admit and for what reasons is not something the NCAA cares about.
    Last edited by guttle11; 09-14-2010 at 07:09 PM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  11. #190
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,583

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    That loophole has gotten quite a few people into college, especially after Prop 48 came about.

    I'm sure of at least 11 guys over four colleges (UK, UL, WKU, and IU) that have been allowed into college because of it.

    I didn't know that about Wall, but it's not suprising.

    I disagree, however, about what Wall did after he came to UK. He worked. Others in that program didn't.

    Chris Marcus, the former WKU center, was a Prop 48 who had to sit out a year. Many, many kids across campus (and fans in Bowling Green) accused him of being ignorant and stupid.

    By the time he went pro, Chris was a 3.5 student who could hold his own discussing American Lit in a fairly tough class. He worked at it and got better. I suspect Wall did the same.

    Too, if this is only a Calipari Special, why in God's name wouldn't he have done this with his last Memphis PG?
    It's not a Calipari special. And it's also dependent on the cooperation of a school to admit such a player under the pretense of the program. Not all schools are as forgiving about such admittance.

    I'm by no means singling out Calipari as the lone user (abuser?) of the program. It's widespread. But the discussion is about Calipari and Kentucky, hence why I'm discussing it here. I had direct knowledge of this particular instance, enough I could have written a story about it if I wanted to, but the spirit didn't move me. I had plenty of good intel and some sources, possibly even a few willing to speak "on the record" but decided the backlash wasn't worth it. I enjoy investigative journalism, but just don't have the desire to be one of those people accused of 'looking' for a story.

    As far as Wall, I'll agree to disagree. But your example about Marcus is quite different. He was a situation where he was forced to sit out unless he applied himself academically. Further, he had 3 years in school to get better.

    Understand this particular portion of the discussion is not suggesting Calipari is cheating. I want to clarify that for others reading or participating. What I'm discussing here is not cheating. It's an NCAA exemption to players that can't gain admission but have special abilities (playing piano, demonstrate unique traits, etc.) to get enrolled. Wall & Cousins were enrolled under this program. Bledsoe may have been, but I have no knowledge on that.

    All I'm saying here is that this program is abused by Kentucky (and many other schools for that matter) and it's very slippery.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #191
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,583

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    Every school gives "exceptions". In fact, Xavier basketball got a player last year because Purdue ran out of their self allotted exceptions and chose to cut that player loose over others. Xavier took him in with an exception.

    Giving a student an exception is not just an athletics thing. The amount of athletes that get admitted through those means is dwarfed by the "regular" students admitted because their parents donate money or because a certain student meets certain demos the alumni network likes to see. Just the way it is. If you actually got to analyze the credentials of every student accepted or denied at private universities, most people would have their jaw drop. That's life. I personally know of a kid admitted into one of the best schools in Ohio despite needing to get a GED because he was friends with the President's son. Kid ended up doing well in school because like a lot of kids he was just a lazy teen that grew up as he hit his 20s.

    When it comes to sports, the student only has to meet the NCAA standards. Who the school decides to admit and for what reasons is not something the NCAA cares about.
    Yes. The issue is that, for instance, Kentucky, athletes make up over 90% of the students admitted under this program. That's a tremendous abuse.

    That's why when the two best players in an incoming class are used under the program, I think it's a major problem.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #192
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,118

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Yes. The issue is that, for instance, Kentucky, athletes make up over 90% of the students admitted under this program. That's a tremendous abuse.

    That's why when the two best players in an incoming class are used under the program, I think it's a major problem.
    It's a business, even for state school. The simple truth is that John Wall provides more to the school than Timmy the future dentist from Maysville. That's just life.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  14. #193
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Braintree, MA
    Posts
    2,097

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    I'm not sure why this is an issue for anyone. If you are a scholarship athlete and are eligible under NCAA standards, just about any school is going to let you in. I would wager that approximately 100% of ND's football team wouldn't get into school there if they applied as "normal" students. There was a kid on my high school baseball team admitted to Princeton with something like a 1200 SAT. Kids with 1600 SATs get turned down there.

  15. #194
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,583

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    It's a business, even for state school. The simple truth is that John Wall provides more to the school than Timmy the future dentist from Maysville. That's just life.
    The "it's a business" excuse may have some validity, but it's still not justified. If that's the case, why have eligibility? Why have standards? Heck, why even have criteria for what constitutes eligibility? Just let everyone be eligible no matter what their grades. Don't have this criteria if it's going to be abused then justified under the guise, "it's a business."

    I happen to agree that it's a business. It's about the almighty dollar. That's why I think it's hilarious when any fans criticize the coach of another school for violations, when in reality these things are happening everywhere (not always to the same degree, but nonetheless happening).

    But I just don't think it justifies it. If you're going to have standards, apply them and enforce them.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #195
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,118

    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    The "it's a business" excuse may have some validity, but it's still not justified. If that's the case, why have eligibility? Why have standards? Heck, why even have criteria for what constitutes eligibility? Just let everyone be eligible no matter what their grades. Don't have this criteria if it's going to be abused then justified under the guise, "it's a business."

    I happen to agree that it's a business. It's about the almighty dollar. That's why I think it's hilarious when any fans criticize the coach of another school for violations, when in reality these things are happening everywhere (not always to the same degree, but nonetheless happening).

    But I just don't think it justifies it. If you're going to have standards, apply them and enforce them.
    Easy answer: Everything happens because it's a business. Alums want their degrees to mean something so "regular" students pay full price (a business transaction) while great students are covered by scholarships. The exposure that comes from big time D-1 athletics is invaluable, so great athletes are cut more slack. Basketball players get treated better than golfers and field hockey players.

    Ivy League schools will admit a poorer student on scholarship over an equally qualified student with money because the poorer student is more likely to give back after he or she graduates and starts making Ivy League grad money. At the same time a poorer student that would be on full scholarship gets bumped because a wealthy alum will donate money if his son is admitted. Is either one right or wrong? Not really. It's a business, and the school has to sustain itself.
    Last edited by guttle11; 09-14-2010 at 09:18 PM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25