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Thread: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

  1. #631
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    That was 25 years ago. I suddenly feel ancient.

    Also, seems like Pelphrey had a moster game against Louisville at some point.
    Good memory. He dropped 26 on them in 1991.

    http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statist...ouisville.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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  3. #632
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Good memory. He dropped 26 on them in 1991.

    http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statist...ouisville.html
    My brother was at UK then. I was about as big a UK fan as one could possibly be at that point.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    My brother was at UK then. I was about as big a UK fan as one could possibly be at that point.
    Was?

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Was?
    I grew up.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    I grew up.
    Now you are in a Vandy-UT home. Quite a change.

  7. #636
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    UK overcomes a slow start to throttle Penn 86-62. On to the SEC. The Cats play at Georgia on Saturday. This won't be an easy game. Georgia has some talent and a good coach in Mark Fox.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Granted the SEC overall is WAY down this year, but Georgia will be pretty fierce competition in the East this year. Outside of the UK freshmen, they probably have as much talent on their roster than any other team.

    Extremely tough way to open up the conference season for the Cats. I think they will be fortunate to get out of Athens with a win.
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...sit-out-a-year

    TIFWIW... it would be pretty amazing if Kanter stayed to play with the 2011 class...
    Looks like it is going to be a moot point.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6000134

    Too bad. I'm not a UK follower but it seems like Kanter and his family tried to comply with the spirit of the NCAA by-laws, which is more than I can say for some of the high profile rulings the NCAA has made recently.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Its really BS at how Masolli (sp?), Renardo Sidney (MS St), and Selby can play, but Kanter cant. The kid passed up millions of dollars to play college basketball. It is also a joke that Bruce Pearl can still coach. Guy admits to cheating and what not, and all...the NCAA is just a joke anymore...
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  11. #640
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan_12 View Post
    Its really BS at how Masolli (sp?), Renardo Sidney (MS St), and Selby can play, but Kanter cant. The kid passed up millions of dollars to play college basketball. It is also a joke that Bruce Pearl can still coach. Guy admits to cheating and what not, and all...the NCAA is just a joke anymore...
    $33,000 is still far more than any of those players took. It doesn't matter if he passed up millions... he accepted money he wasn't supposed allowed, by rule, to accept.

    This is an open and shut case. I appreciate he wanted to play college ball and wish more would just as he does. But $30K is a large chunk of money and it's not one that has ever been OK'd by the NCAA.

    Funny thing about this is that for as upset as Kentucky fans are about this, going so far in some cases to go say ridiculous things to Pete Thamel (even death threats), they're losing sight of the fact that Josh Harrellson has been, IMHO, one of the absolute most improved players in America. He's not Enes Kanter, but right now he's rated No. 7 in the country in offensive efficiency, doesn't turn it over much, is one of the better rebounders in the nation and has been a workhorse inside. I think UK fans should focus on what they have instead of being preoccupied with what was never going to be there to begin with.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    You ignore two things, Brutus:

    1) The Kanter family tried to trudge through the NCAA rulebook by themselves with no help from anyone. Remember, different language, different culture, different ways of doing things. No Turkish ballplayer goes to a regular high school. (That's why this decision is so backwards, IMO. The NCAA is seemingly taking a hard-line stance against not just Kanter, but all "foreigners" simply because they do things the NCAA refuses to understand.) How can one family, with English as a second language, expect to keep straight the myriad of rules when entire universities can't?

    You rail againt it being a professional team that gave him money. So what? Doesn't any money given to a player by anyone automatically make them a professional?


    2) The Kanter family never spent the money on anything except an education. There was extra money in the savings account ($13,000) over top of the amount used for tutors, et al, never spent. In America, the money Kanter's father accepted would have been less than many private school scholarships.

    By the letter of the law, Kanter should have been declared ineligible, true. But the kid could have made millions (and was in fact offered a million dollars) and refused it to go to college. That's the kind of kid I would want at my school representing my corporation.

    His is the type of case the appeals process was made for.

    Instead, we get Josh Selby, who took money knowing full well it was wrong, then lied about it.

    Instead, we get Renardo Sidney, who took money knowing full well it was wrong, then lied about it.

    Instead, we get five (!) OSU players who knowingly broke the rules, then hid behind ignorance, knowing full well they were wrong.

    Instead, we get a limp governing body that turns a blind eye to what is right in order to hide behind what is easy.

    You insist he took money he wasn't allowed to take. Fair enough. So did Selby, Sidney, and the Ohio State players. Is it the amount of money that offends you? What does that matter? Isn't all of it technically wrong? If you're going to follow the letter of the law, that's fine.

    But do it for everyone.
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  13. #642
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    You ignore two things, Brutus:

    1) The Kanter family tried to trudge through the NCAA rulebook by themselves with no help from anyone. Remember, different language, different culture, different ways of doing things. No Turkish ballplayer goes to a regular high school. (That's why this decision is so backwards, IMO. The NCAA is seemingly taking a hard-line stance against not just Kanter, but all "foreigners" simply because they do things the NCAA refuses to understand.) How can one family, with English as a second language, expect to keep straight the myriad of rules when entire universities can't?

    You rail againt it being a professional team that gave him money. So what? Doesn't any money given to a player by anyone automatically make them a professional?


    2) The Kanter family never spent the money on anything except an education. There was extra money in the savings account ($13,000) over top of the amount used for tutors, et al, never spent. In America, the money Kanter's father accepted would have been less than many private school scholarships.

    By the letter of the law, Kanter should have been declared ineligible, true. But the kid could have made millions (and was in fact offered a million dollars) and refused it to go to college. That's the kind of kid I would want at my school representing my corporation.

    His is the type of case the appeals process was made for.

    Instead, we get Josh Selby, who took money knowing full well it was wrong, then lied about it.

    Instead, we get Renardo Sidney, who took money knowing full well it was wrong, then lied about it.

    Instead, we get five (!) OSU players who knowingly broke the rules, then hid behind ignorance, knowing full well they were wrong.

    Instead, we get a limp governing body that turns a blind eye to what is right in order to hide behind what is easy.

    You insist he took money he wasn't allowed to take. Fair enough. So did Selby, Sidney, and the Ohio State players. Is it the amount of money that offends you? What does that matter? Isn't all of it technically wrong? If you're going to follow the letter of the law, that's fine.

    But do it for everyone.
    Professional basketball clubs employ players for a livelihood. Their very existence is to employ professionals. Taking money/benefits from hobbyists and getting paid from a professional ballclub is a very big distinction. It's not even remotely the same. If Josh Selby took money from the Pistons, we wouldn't be having this conversation because he would be ineligible just like Kanter is, even if it were for academic expenses.

    This isn't hard to figure out. And ignorance isn't an excuse for not following the law. OK so the Kanters wanted to play college ball and towed the line carefully. So what? If they were really concerned by it, they wouldn't have risked being associated with the club or would have sought advice about it. So that they took any money above travel expenses isn't a good excuse. If they were truly doing their homework, they would have known not to take that chance to begin with.

    It's pretty simple... those players you mentioned received benefits. They were punished. Kanter received money from a professional club. He was considered, thereby, a professional. I can understand one supposedly had the right motives and the others didn't, but intellectually, the one that received money from a professional basketball club should thereby be considered a professional.

    In any event, if the Kanters are true to their word and they want their son to have an American education... guess what? They're still going to get it. A free education at Kentucky if he wants it. That's what he wanted right?

    Does it suck that a player wanted to play college ball instead of the NBA? Actually, yes. I am disappointed by that. Kanter is a great talent, one that is good for the college game.

    But he received expenses from a professional club beyond travel & sustenance. That right there ends an NCAA case pretty much every time.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  14. #643
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    You ignore two things, Brutus:

    1) The Kanter family tried to trudge through the NCAA rulebook by themselves with no help from anyone. Remember, different language, different culture, different ways of doing things. No Turkish ballplayer goes to a regular high school. (That's why this decision is so backwards, IMO. The NCAA is seemingly taking a hard-line stance against not just Kanter, but all "foreigners" simply because they do things the NCAA refuses to understand.) How can one family, with English as a second language, expect to keep straight the myriad of rules when entire universities can't?

    You rail againt it being a professional team that gave him money. So what? Doesn't any money given to a player by anyone automatically make them a professional?


    2) The Kanter family never spent the money on anything except an education. There was extra money in the savings account ($13,000) over top of the amount used for tutors, et al, never spent. In America, the money Kanter's father accepted would have been less than many private school scholarships.

    By the letter of the law, Kanter should have been declared ineligible, true. But the kid could have made millions (and was in fact offered a million dollars) and refused it to go to college. That's the kind of kid I would want at my school representing my corporation.

    His is the type of case the appeals process was made for.

    Instead, we get Josh Selby, who took money knowing full well it was wrong, then lied about it.

    Instead, we get Renardo Sidney, who took money knowing full well it was wrong, then lied about it.

    Instead, we get five (!) OSU players who knowingly broke the rules, then hid behind ignorance, knowing full well they were wrong.

    Instead, we get a limp governing body that turns a blind eye to what is right in order to hide behind what is easy.

    You insist he took money he wasn't allowed to take. Fair enough. So did Selby, Sidney, and the Ohio State players. Is it the amount of money that offends you? What does that matter? Isn't all of it technically wrong? If you're going to follow the letter of the law, that's fine.

    But do it for everyone.
    Damn that's a good post.

    I feel bad for Kanter more than anything else. If he had known how this would play out, he could have spent the last year earning between 3-4 million dollars between playing for his National Team and Euro ball.

    He came to Kentucky to be a college basketball player AND student.

    As you so well laid out, his INTENT is what separates him from the masses of collegiate athletes in the eligibility news lately. The fact that he was willing to make restitution combined with his clear intent to remain amateur would seemingly lead to the NCAA giving him a path to play college sports. The NCAA and the Appeals Committee, in their infinite wisdom, decided to deny him that path.

    Whatever, it's over now.

    "My team's on the court!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  15. #644
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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    “I’m not worried about that,” Calipari said when asked about the possibility of UK forfeiting games because of Kanter’s participation. “This is about that young man. So whatever (the Kanter family) chooses to do as a family, we’ll support.”

    Yanno, part of me would love to see the Kanter's lawyer slug the NCAA right in the nose with a lawsuit and see some transparency introduced into the circus they're running in Indianapolis...

    Personally I think he'll just set his sights on preparing for the draft. I know I wish him the best and will always consider him a Cat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Professional basketball clubs employ players for a livelihood. Their very existence is to employ professionals. Taking money/benefits from hobbyists and getting paid from a professional ballclub is a very big distinction. It's not even remotely the same. If Josh Selby took money from the Pistons, we wouldn't be having this conversation because he would be ineligible just like Kanter is, even if it were for academic expenses.
    Respectfully, your argument is entirely semantics, Brutus. It doesn't matter who pays the cash. The fact of the matter is that all were paid largely for their talent. Period. That makes each of them professional. The distinction you're trying to make is flawed at its very core.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    This isn't hard to figure out. And ignorance isn't an excuse for not following the law. OK so the Kanters wanted to play college ball and towed the line carefully. So what? If they were really concerned by it, they wouldn't have risked being associated with the club or would have sought advice about it. So that they took any money above travel expenses isn't a good excuse. If they were truly doing their homework, they would have known not to take that chance to begin with.

    It's pretty simple... those players you mentioned received benefits. They were punished. Kanter received money from a professional club. He was considered, thereby, a professional. I can understand one supposedly had the right motives and the others didn't, but intellectually, the one that received money from a professional basketball club should thereby be considered a professional.
    Again, if you want to play any basketball in Turkey, that's the system he had to deal with. There are no high school teams to play with, no AAU clubs. The only basketball is run by professional clubs, who then have a stranglehold on those players.

    It's patently unfair to expect those kids in other countries to do things as American kids when they have no opportunity to do so.

    Too, he wasn't paid to be a professional. His father was given money for educational expenses. He and his family refused moneys that they thought would have made him a professional. That's a pretty big distinction both you and the NCAA haven't seen yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    In any event, if the Kanters are true to their word and they want their son to have an American education... guess what? They're still going to get it. A free education at Kentucky if he wants it. That's what he wanted right?

    Does it suck that a player wanted to play college ball instead of the NBA? Actually, yes. I am disappointed by that. Kanter is a great talent, one that is good for the college game.

    But he received expenses from a professional club beyond travel & sustenance. That right there ends an NCAA case pretty much every time.
    So it's okay to get money from boosters, agents, and assorted hangers-on, but not from a professional team? Again, that's some pretty tortuous logic, IMO.

    Finally, I think it's important not just to focus on the hard and fast rule. (The NCAA hasn't done that all year-- why start now?) The intent is key here.

    To use an analogy, I've got a kid in class who plagiarized on his last paper. He didn't really understand the concept of cheating, but, once it was explained, he apologized profusely and offered to not only take the punishment (a zero), but also re-do the paper.

    The rule is pretty straightforward.

    But the intent wasn't to deceive me or lengthen his work. He just didn't quite grasp the concept of how to (or the need to) cite paraphrased material.

    What should I have done, Brutus?

    I know what the NCAA would have done. Well, no, I don't. I guess it depends on the university, the spotlight, and how much money can be earned, as to their decision.
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