Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

  1. #1
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    An article rehashing some of the points we've discussed here. Not a bad summary.

    The Reds have an abundance of major league starters under team control in 2011. Mike Leake, Homer Bailey and Travis Wood are not yet arbitration-eligible and Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez will be arbitration-eligible for the first time this winter. All except Wood, a 2005 second-rounder, ranked among Baseball America's top 100 prospects before they became prominent major leaguers. That's an entire rotation's worth of former top prospects and they're all still cheap.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,791

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Add Arroyo for wily vet presence then try to make Bailey your closer and you are set for next year pitching wise. Ondrusek, Bray, Masset, Rhodes (if he plays), Smith, and Fisher to round out the pen.

    You still have Chapman waiting in the wings.

    Think of any SS's you want for next year. Teams will be burning up the phones asking about pitching this winter
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    769

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by LincolnparkRed View Post
    Add Arroyo for wily vet presence then try to make Bailey your closer and you are set for next year pitching wise. Ondrusek, Bray, Masset, Rhodes (if he plays), Smith, and Fisher to round out the pen.

    You still have Chapman waiting in the wings.

    Think of any SS's you want for next year. Teams will be burning up the phones asking about pitching this winter
    Replace Arroyo with Webb.

  5. #4
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRedz View Post
    Replace Arroyo with Webb.
    That's the second time I've seen you mention Brandon Webb and the Reds. Are you hearing something?
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #5
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,178

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    I think Webb does make some sense. He is from this region, his former pitching coach is Bryan Price, and its a Jocketty type move.

    I have a feeling that there will be a trade this off season involving one of the Reds younger pitchers. Don't know who but it seems to me the Reds have a glut of young pitching and some holes elsewhere.

  7. #6
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,792

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Brandon Webb, whose shoulder is held together with baling wire and duct tape? I'd rather not count on him, especially as a replacement for Arroyo's wily veteran presence.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,693

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    With the performance of Carpenter last night, it shows how important a true Number 1 stopper is in a pennant race.

    Reds will have to decide whether to re-up on Arroyo or whether to go into the market for a free agent pitcher of even higher caliber.

    With that Number 1 guy, the rest of the rotation would come from Cueto, Volquez, Bailey, Chapman, Leake, Wood.

    If the Reds are in a spending mode, they could exercise the Arroyo option AND get a free agent pitcher.

    In any event, I'd expect Harang to be gone and possibly one of the younger pitchers if there are trades.

    The bullpen also has great depth for next season with the good performances of Ondrusek, Smith, Bray added to the veterans Cordero, Rhodes (if he stays), Masset. There's also Fisher, Burton, and in a pinch Del Rosario and Herrera. And Valiquette is coming on.

    And, looking at the pen, wouldn't be suprised if Chapman winds up there next year.

    As someone correctly posted awhile back, the Reds have lots of pitching depth. What they need is a little height (i.e., a real Number one starter).
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-10-2010 at 12:32 PM.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    769

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    No reason to think the Reds won't be chasing that No. 1 this winter considering their efforts to acquire Halladay last July and Lee most recently.

  10. #9
    Member dunner13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    607

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    If we let harang and arroyo both go we have to get a veteran starter at the top of the rotatation to replace them. If the royals decide to put grienke on the market this winter, which after his recent comments seems likely, I'm sure walt will go hard after him. Also I saw an article a week or two ago saying that the rays are likely to shop garza this winter. If we could get one of those two guys at the top of the rotation we would be set. I would keep webb as a plan B. I would love to have him but I you cant circle him in as #1 or even a #2 starter at this point.

  11. #10
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRedz View Post
    No reason to think the Reds won't be chasing that No. 1 this winter considering their efforts to acquire Halladay last July and Lee most recently.
    Lee will be available, doubt they make a strong bid for him. Not sure I'd want them to anyway. Signing an old Lee means losing a young guy or 3 in short order.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  12. #11
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,791

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    If we let harang and arroyo both go we have to get a veteran starter at the top of the rotatation to replace them. If the royals decide to put grienke on the market this winter, which after his recent comments seems likely, I'm sure walt will go hard after him.
    how much do you give up though?
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

  13. #12
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Panama City Beach
    Posts
    13,771

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    I wouldn't be surprised by a Leake (from Arizona) for Webb type deal over winter.

    Webb, Cueto, Volquez, Wood and Chapman as rotation and Bailey to pen (and either Bailey or Masset becoming closer)

    Also wouldn't be surprised if Arroyo is back and then Chapman and Wood duke it out for last rotation slot.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

  14. #13
    Member dunner13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    607

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised by a Leake (from Arizona) for Webb type deal over winter.

    Webb, Cueto, Volquez, Wood and Chapman as rotation and Bailey to pen (and either Bailey or Masset becoming closer)

    Also wouldn't be surprised if Arroyo is back and then Chapman and Wood duke it out for last rotation slot.
    Why would we trade for Webb when hes going to be a free agent after this year? Theres pretty much 0% chance the D'backs pick up his 8 million dollar option. And I certainly wouldnt trade Mike Leake for Webb at this point.

  15. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,023

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    I really, really hope Arroyo is let go at the end of the season. I'm very appreciate for what he's given the team over the last few years, but his results are simply way out of line with his performance (declining K/9, significant & unsustainable BABIP luck).

    As a 4.50 ERA guy, which is a reasonable expectation of his performance moving forward, his salary is not insanely out of line. However, I do think it's a luxury we shouldn't pay for. We have a number of internal options who can give us that level of performance (or close to it) for cheap. Paying Arroyo $11M so that Matt Maloney can rot in AAA just doesn't make sense to me.

    We already have 5 guys who have established the ability to be major league caliber starters:
    Cueto
    Wood
    Volquez
    Bailey
    Leake

    We also have a handful of guys who could be starters next, one with ace potential, most as back end guys:
    Chapman
    Maloney
    LeCure
    Owings
    Fisher (if you ask me...he could/should be stretched out)

    And a few guys who could be ready in late 2011:
    Ben Jukich
    Matt Klinker

    Bottom line, this team doesn't lack for options. It does lack of upside. Getting from 78-80 to 86-88 wins is one thing. Getting from there to 92-94 is another. For once this team isn't desperate to fill out the back of its roster. While this is a good thing, it means we have a higher bar to clear when adding talent if we're going to add wins.

    I don't think we get any better by spending $11M hoping Arroyo's run of good luck can continue. I find it very hard to believe that Arroyo has, over the past two years, developed an ability to limit hits on balls in play equal to that of Mariano Rivera, one of the greatest of all-time (literally) at doing this. He might be worth $11M in free agency to somebody, but I don't think he's $10.5M better than the guy who goes back to AAA or to the bullpen.

    This team needs to spend it's money locking up and acquiring top level talent that it cannot acquire otherwise. That could mean signing a starter in FA who is better (even if more expensive) or more likely, trading for a starter like Ricky Nolasco, Matt Cain or Wandy Rodriguez who is getting expensive for their current team relative to their other needs. Even if the money isn't spent in the offseason, financial flexibility has serious value in trades come next summer.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #15
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    Re: MLBTR: The Reds' 2011 Rotation

    Well said, Rick. I agree, we don't need "depth" any more, we need "height."
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25