Cueto 7 game suspension

[Illybey]

And he had walked away and was taking a few swings vbefore gettging in the box-he was prepared to play, Molina chose to get up and wait for him in the box-thats the batters space he was in. I am not defending Brandons actions the night before, but more saying to cards fans here to stop acting like none of your guys are accountable either, your not a victim here.

Did you not see the second tap or something? The first tap is fine, but he did it again to get a rise out of him. Molina had to get up and do something or he really would have been the BI**H he was called.

[markymark69]

I find it hilarious that Cardinal fans come on this board and expect us Reds fans to be all giddy and in agreement with the fact that except for LaRussa, they get off essentially scott free, well because they're the Cardinals.

It's the ole classic double standard. It's okay for us to instigate and accuse people of cheating and complain about this or that and everybody should just take it, because they're the Cardinals.

They preach professionalism, but when they fail to act like professionals - well it's the other guys fault "because he hurt my feelings." He can't say that to us because "we're the Cardinals."

What they should have done and left it at that was beat the snot out of the Reds, which they did. They cheapened what they did, because they had to use it as motivation because they've underacheived all season. If you are true professionals you rise above criticism, not give into it or do the same thing because the other guy did.

Brandon Phillips failed at it too and probably so did Dusty and others. But, the Reds at least aren't hypocritical. They don't go around claiming this and claiming that and then doing the opposite or blaming the other guy for their reaction.

The whole thing was bad for baseball and the Cardinals were just as guilty as the Reds were.

[Illybey]

Carpenter was out of line. He wasn't even in the game - he pushes into the middle of the fray in a warmup jacket and starts hurling insults at Dusty Baker. When your ex-teammate Scott Rolen is furious enough to get physical with you in that situation, you have obviously crossed a line.

I don't care if the talking heads at ESPN agree or disagree with that sentiment. Carpenter was out of line and I don't need a reporter to echo that to know that it is true.

You are just saying that because Carp is great pitch for the Cards, if it had been a scrub you wouldn't even care. It is just stupidity to say you suspend a guy for Jawing, I don't even think Phillips should be suspended for cussing the entire cardinal organization.

[swaisuc]

Also, and this has already been touched on at least a few times:

Phillips actually instigated the brawl. He walks up to Molina and taps him on the shin - this is a player that he has (basically) called a ***** 24 hours prior. Molina ignores him. Instead of accepting that the Cardinals are not going to be pleasant with him, Phillips taps Molina again, demanding a greeting.

Molina proceeds to tell Phillips off. Things escalate. Brawl ensues.

What is Molina supposed to do? I like Brandon's fire and I'm glad we fought - even with the subsequent sweep - but Molina felt the need to stand up for his ballclub, just as Brandon felt the need to step up for his ballclub.

I like that passion from both parties.

I generally agree with your point, but Molina didn't ignore him. He kicks the bat away on the tap and starts talking immediately. He decided before he even took the field that when Phillips came up and tapped like he always does, he was going to be ready for it. He basically admitted as much in the postgame interview.

FWIW, I really don't have a big problem with any of it from either team. Its a playoff race between teams that don't like each other. Things happen.

[bounty37h]

Guys I'm telling you, no one outside of Reds fans think Molina or Carp did anything wrong. Did you guys hear Mike and Mike after it happened?

I understand that carp is our best pitcher and you guys would like to see him miss a start but "jawing" someone is just not that kind of offense. now if he had brought a bat out and tapped Dusty on the leg 2 times...

Contradict much??? Bphil is the worst person in the world for running his mouth, but its ok for Carp to do it?? I think thats why fans hate the Cards, the double standard that they seem to feel entitled to.

[GIDP]

Reds should just accuse the Cardinals of cheating every time they win. Or say they are just a hot team with no talent. Or you know try to spike their 2nd baseman every chance they get. Or try to throw at their starting pitchers head.

You know stuff classy teams do.

[Griffey012]

Guys I'm telling you, no one outside of Reds fans think Molina or Carp did anything wrong. Did you guys hear Mike and Mike after it happened?

I understand that carp is our best pitcher and you guys would like to see him miss a start but "jawing" someone is just not that kind of offense. now if he had brought a bat out and tapped Dusty on the leg 2 times...

I can agree that Molina was provoked and didn't do anything very far out of line. People would say he should have just ignored it and went on but no professional athlete or any of us would have no reaction to that. But to think Carpenter didnt do anything wrong is just ludicrous, sorry.

[Illybey]

Contradict much??? Bphil is the worst person in the world for running his mouth, but its ok for Carp to do it?? I think thats why fans hate the Cards, the double standard that they seem to feel entitled to.

Look up 2 posts where I say that Phillips should not be suspended for "Jawing", it is the second tap that should get him suspended. Where exactly is my double standard?

[ThornWithin81]

You are just saying that because Carp is great pitch for the Cards, if it had been a scrub you wouldn't even care. It is just stupidity to say you suspend a guy for Jawing, I don't even think Phillips should be suspended for cussing the entire cardinal organization.

Go back and find the "Chris Carpenter is a..." thread from a few days back. My initial response to that prompt, even after he went after Brenden Ryan was "a great pitcher with passion."

Whatever he said to Dusty, it was obviously inappropriate. Scott Rolen is not a guy who snaps easily. He went from calm to murderous rage in a hurry. Carpenter had no business being in Dusty's face and whatever he said was out of line, period.

Also, I should point out that I DON'T think Carpenter should have been suspended. I simply stated that he was out of line. Getting dominated by Scott Rolen and carried into the fence like a ***** was punishment enough.

[fielder's choice]

It would have ended there if Phillips had not tapped Molina a second time.

Exactly, in fact if Molina hadnt reacted the way he did I would have thought he was a little *****

[ThornWithin81]

I generally agree with your point, but Molina didn't ignore him. He kicks the bat away on the tap and starts talking immediately. He decided before he even took the field that when Phillips came up and tapped like he always does, he was going to be ready for it. He basically admitted as much in the postgame interview.

FWIW, I really don't have a big problem with any of it from either team. Its a playoff race between teams that don't like each other. Things happen.

I wasn't aware of this - the camera wasn't focused on their interaction when it happened live.

Still, I can't really fault Molina for standing up against a guy who was that aggressive towards his team. The only person who needed to be suspended (beyond the skippers) was suspended. You can't start using those cleats to hurt people, even if you are doing so out of a panic.

Furthermore... what the hell was little Cueto doing in there in the first place? You're the starting pitcher sitting on the bench waiting for the top of the second. Let the position players go out there and fight that battle. I can understand why Garcia was right in the middle of it, he was on the mound and ran in as soon as things got heated. Cueto should have used his head and stayed to the fringe. I can't sit here and criticize Chrissy Carpenter for running into the middle without throwing the same criticism at Cueto too.

That would be hypocritical.

Look up 2 posts where I say that Phillips should not be suspended for "Jawing", it is the second tap that should get him suspended. Where exactly is my double standard?

Phillips should not have been suspended for tapping him on the shin again. The three suspensions that were handed out were the correct suspensions. Let's leave it at that and move on.

[bounty37h]

Did you not see the second tap or something? The first tap is fine, but he did it again to get a rise out of him. Molina had to get up and do something or he really would have been the BI**H he was called.

OK, and like i said, if thats the route you wanna go then you have to be ready if there is punishment. There wasnt any, so no issue, but it makes him just as guilty in my opinion, and it would in court if a fight had broken out in real world public. I see it every week in court, a fight goes to court, someone says "well, he said blah blah bla so I stepped up to him", and the judge says "you should not have stepped up to him, there are more appropriate ways to handle it" and they both get their appropriate punishment. If Molina cant take being called a little childish name like that, he really doesnt need to be in public. If someone cuts him off in traffic and calls him a beeotch and flips him the bird, does he confront them?

[Illybey]

I can agree that Molina was provoked and didn't do anything very far out of line. People would say he should have just ignored it and went on but no professional athlete or any of us would have no reaction to that. But to think Carpenter didnt do anything wrong is just ludicrous, sorry.

Did he do anything worse than going in front of the nation and calling a team a bunch of BI***HES ? Have you never seen players jaw each other and get nothing? Because I have been physical in any way, he should be in trouble.

[markymark69]

OK, and like i said, if thats the route you wanna go then you have to be ready if there is punishment. There wasnt any, so no issue, but it makes him just as guilty in my opinion, and it would in court if a fight had broken out in real world public. I see it every week in court, a fight goes to court, someone says "well, he said blah blah bla so I stepped up to him", and the judge says "you should not have stepped up to him, there are more appropriate ways to handle it" and they both get their appropriate punishment. If Molina cant take being called a little childish name like that, he really doesnt need to be in public. If someone cuts him off in traffic and calls him a beeotch and flips him the bird, does he confront them?

Good post. But, don't facts in get in the way of other people's opinion.

[Illybey]

OK, and like i said, if thats the route you wanna go then you have to be ready if there is punishment. There wasnt any, so no issue, but it makes him just as guilty in my opinion, and it would in court if a fight had broken out in real world public. I see it every week in court, a fight goes to court, someone says "well, he said blah blah bla so I stepped up to him", and the judge says "you should not have stepped up to him, there are more appropriate ways to handle it" and they both get their appropriate punishment. If Molina cant take being called a little childish name like that, he really doesnt need to be in public. If someone cuts him off in traffic and calls him a beeotch and flips him the bird, does he confront them?

So you think that if saying something is the equal to physical contact? It just isn't.

Just toooo ridiculous to comment on. Your courts are messed up to if that is the case, it wouldn't go that way here.