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Thread: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

  1. #46
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhatHead View Post
    Both have comparable offensive numbers.

    It's bottom of the 9th. 2 outs, runner on third. A sharp ground ball hit deep in the hole between SS and 3rd. Who do you want fielding it?
    How about Ozzie getting to the ball, but Davey throwning it
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    The Big Red Machine was more popular than your Cardinals ever were or ever will be.
    Ozzie did not start till after the big red machine was dead, so their was no direct competition between Ozzie and The Big Red Machine. The reds in the 80's were by far the worse team in baseball. It is not like today where sports center is on 24/7 you got like 5 minutes on the local nightly news and if you got any coverage that was not a local sport team it was Ozzie doing that damn back flip. Local news had about 5 seconds to devote to non local sports and a flip took about 5 seconds


    You also had This week in Baseball which did not cover the Reds in the 80's because they had 30 minutes a week and well the Reds SUCKED in the 80's. And every week I remember seeing Ozzie doing back flips on TWIB

    With the The Big Red Machine Davey was never a talking point, as good as he was: Rose, Bench, Morgan, Foster, & Perez were better in the eyes of people because they could hit. Only time Davey hit was in the clutch. So Davey was 6th or 7th on the pecking list while Ozzie was 1st on the pecking list for the Cards. Only thing the Cards had besides Ozzie was Vince Coleman

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post
    the Reds SUCKED in the 80's.
    That's not really true. Just the portion of the '80s that included Concepcion. The mid to late '80s Reds were pretty good.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    All this talk about Dave, Ozzie, Larkin and Jeter and not 1 single mention of the greatest SS that ever lived? The Babe Ruth of SS's....Honus Wagner. Greatest hitting SS of all time and the best leather and throw man of his era, playing with that little glove they used. Go look him up guys and get back to me.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    barry larkin

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    All this talk about Dave, Ozzie, Larkin and Jeter and not 1 single mention of the greatest SS that ever lived? The Babe Ruth of SS's....Honus Wagner. Greatest hitting SS of all time and the best leather and throw man of his era, playing with that little glove they used. Go look him up guys and get back to me.
    Yeah I kind of already knew about Honus, although admittedly it was only because of hearing about his baseball card that's worth like a million dollars. I went and looked up his stats after I heard about one selling at an auction like 6-7 years ago.

    I think it's hard to compare a player from that era with players today, or even players 50 years ago.

    Personally, I only really compare players today with players from the mid 1940s and on when baseball got segregated. Scouting also started to increase exponentially from that point on.

    If we don't split up the eras old time players will dominate the stats too much. And if we're looking at ranking teams then it gets even more drastic. The BRM is one of the greatest teams in baseball history but they don't hold a candle to the late 1920's Yankees.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    the Reds SUCKED in the 80's.
    In 1980 the Reds won 89 games. In 1981 they had the best record in baseball but got shafted. Their overall record from 80-89 was 781-783, due largely to a 61-101 record in 1982.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    I've been around long enough to see both play. Both were good, Ozzie was better in the field and dazzling time and time again. Concepcion was the better hitter and very steady at short. What Ozzie had over Concepcion was the media factor. Concepcion had to deal with teammates who far overshadowed his performance. Ozzie was a key to the defense and speed teams of the Cardinals, so he stuck out in a smaller crowd. You can't just look at the numbers and say one was better than the other. People would go to games expecting Ozzie to entertain them and he rarely disappointed. I don't think the same could be said of Concepcion.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by 10xWSChamps View Post
    Yeah I kind of already knew about Honus, although admittedly it was only because of hearing about his baseball card that's worth like a million dollars. I went and looked up his stats after I heard about one selling at an auction like 6-7 years ago.

    I think it's hard to compare a player from that era with players today, or even players 50 years ago.

    Personally, I only really compare players today with players from the mid 1940s and on when baseball got segregated. Scouting also started to increase exponentially from that point on.

    If we don't split up the eras old time players will dominate the stats too much. And if we're looking at ranking teams then it gets even more drastic. The BRM is one of the greatest teams in baseball history but they don't hold a candle to the late 1920's Yankees.
    When it comes to players of different era's it's best to compare how they ranked in THEIR era. No SS has dominated any era as Wagner did his. There was no one to compare him with.

    Not so Dave and Ozzie. (or Jeter!)

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yadi for Mayor View Post
    Ozzie Smith's famous "go crazy folks" homerun in the 1985 NLCS was pretty clutch.
    Famous quotes, sorry that yours don't compare with the excitement the Reds have had with Marty say "And this one belongs to the Reds" What kind of announcer would say "go crazy folks." Buck and little Buck weren't very good and unfortunately living close to Illinois I had to listen to them from time to time. They were nowhere in the same league as the father son combo of Marty and Thom!

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by redlegs2370 View Post
    Famous quotes, sorry that yours don't compare with the excitement the Reds have had with Marty say "And this one belongs to the Reds" What kind of announcer would say "go crazy folks." Buck and little Buck weren't very good and unfortunately living close to Illinois I had to listen to them from time to time. They were nowhere in the same league as the father son combo of Marty and Thom!
    I did not understand Buck's "dry witt" when I was a child, or appreciate it when I got older. But I do admire his intelligence. I was moved by the old man's 9/11 poem and saddened by his soon after death.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    I did not understand Buck's "dry witt" when I was a child, or appreciate it when I got older. But I do admire his intelligence. I was moved by the old man's 9/11 poem and saddened by his soon after death.
    I'll never forget when Eric Davis hit the home run in 1990 and you hear Buck in the back ground say uh oh. He didn't want Reds to win. His poem was well written though.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocRed View Post
    Hard to compare offensive worth vs defensive worth, even with today's sabremetrics. That being said Concepcion was certainly no slouch defensively, he was a 5 time GG'er. Overall though Ozzie was better, but the difference was not a large as some here would lead you to believe, Ozzie had some extremely bad offensive years early in his career. It was only until he turned 30 that he somehow began to hit the ball with any kind of consistency. Ozzie's BA was somewhere in the .230's before he hit 30.
    Well said Doc. Concepcion was better offensively no question about it. Defensively I might give a slight edge to Smith because I think he could cover a little bit more ground. Arm strength to first was very similiar.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post
    Ozzie did not start till after the big red machine was dead, so their was no direct competition between Ozzie and The Big Red Machine. The reds in the 80's were by far the worse team in baseball. It is not like today where sports center is on 24/7 you got like 5 minutes on the local nightly news and if you got any coverage that was not a local sport team it was Ozzie doing that damn back flip. Local news had about 5 seconds to devote to non local sports and a flip took about 5 seconds


    You also had This week in Baseball which did not cover the Reds in the 80's because they had 30 minutes a week and well the Reds SUCKED in the 80's. And every week I remember seeing Ozzie doing back flips on TWIB

    With the The Big Red Machine Davey was never a talking point, as good as he was: Rose, Bench, Morgan, Foster, & Perez were better in the eyes of people because they could hit. Only time Davey hit was in the clutch. So Davey was 6th or 7th on the pecking list while Ozzie was 1st on the pecking list for the Cards. Only thing the Cards had besides Ozzie was Vince Coleman
    In the 80's the Reds were in no way the worst team in baseball (they had a winning record 6 out of 10 years, including the best record in the NL in 81). They had the same number of winning seasons as the Cards. Second, WTF do the Reds of the 80's have to do with the Reds of the 70's which you quoted? I was comparing the popularity of the Cards in the 80's vs. the Reds in the 70's, when both players were in their prime.

    TWIB? You mean a 1/2 hour show on Saturday around noon is the thing that propelled the Cardinals popularity vs. the Reds of the 70's?

    Your only legit point is the one I mentioned. Yet I was refuting the point made that the Cards popularity in the 80's was bigger than the Reds of the 70's, which is laughable. No one in their right mind brings up the Cards in the 80's when people discuss the greatest teams of all time, yet you can bet the Big Red Machine will be in the discussion.

    Buy a clue before spouting off the Reds were the worst team in baseball in the 80's, especially since it was nothing to do with my points and is completely wrong.
    Last edited by scott91575; 08-13-2010 at 09:31 PM.

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    Re: Better shortstop Dave Concepcion or Ozzie Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by 10xWSChamps View Post
    Liar!

    Offensively they were similar players but on the bases and defensively Ozzie was head and shoulders above Dave

    Fielding % isn't a very good statistic.
    Ozzie Smith sucked big-time Offensively the first half of his career. Concepcion was always good.


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