Turn Off Ads?

View Poll Results: Does Homer have TOR Stuff?

Voters
21. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    14 66.67%
  • No

    3 14.29%
  • Not sure

    4 19.05%
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 48

Thread: Homer Bailey poll

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,752

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    There are few pitchers that come out of the shoot being TOR starters.

    Look at Cliff Lee (30 years old). How about Cris Carpenter (29)?

    Or how about:

    Glavine (25)
    Wainwright (26, though it could be argued his first TOR was last year, at age 28)
    Cain (25)
    Josh Johnson (25)
    Randy Johnson (27, though he was 29 when he had his first TOR year)
    Santana (25)
    Jimenez (25)

    Homer Bailey is 24, with TOR potential stuff. Give him time to realize it.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Past performance is not a perfect predictor of future results, it's a starting point. And when you combine Bailey's past performance with his age and scouting assessments, there is great potential there. I don't know of anybody who is asserting with certitude that Homer is going to be a #1 or #2 guy and certainly not currently one. But it's a reasonable possibility in the future.

    Would you mind citing some examples of the claims against which you're arguing? I suspect it's a bit of a strawman -- certainly from the perspective of the general understanding. As for his stuff, 95 mph heat and a hammer curve aren't exactly BOR material. Whether or not he can consistently get TOR results with that stuff is a different question.
    95 and straight as an arrow doesn't necessarily equate to TOR, movement especially late movement is a much better indicator of stuff.

    Not sure what you want me to cite please explain? I though I had laid it out there pretty clearly.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #18
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Are you seeing Stud OF from Bruce?
    Yes and I have made a solid argument for it which I am not gonna rehash in this thread.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  5. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,752

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Even then his H/9 and K/9 (and his BB/9) were suggesting his results weren't a result of overpowering stuff, only the ERA is a great number. Defense and poor opposition (4 games vs. the Pirates as an example) could easily explain that stretch.
    53 K's in 58.1 innings is pretty good.

    In the NL this year, the only starters with a better K -rate are

    Strasberg
    Gallardo
    Lincecum
    Norris
    Sanchez
    Kershaw
    Latos
    Johnson
    Nolasco
    Dempster
    Gorzelanny
    Hansen
    Jimenez

    Most of trhe pitchers we consider true TOR starters are below that.

    He K'd quite a few and gave up minimal HR's.

  6. #20
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    19,134

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    95 and straight as an arrow doesn't necessarily equate to TOR, movement especially late movement is a much better indicator of stuff.

    Not sure what you want me to cite please explain? I though I had laid it out there pretty clearly.
    Ya. The straight as an arrow part doesn't help.

    But Homer has a good shot at being a nice starter.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #21
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    53 K's in 58.1 innings is pretty good.

    In the NL this year, the only starters with a better K -rate are

    Strasberg
    Gallardo
    Lincecum
    Norris
    Sanchez
    Kershaw
    Latos
    Johnson
    Nolasco
    Dempster
    Gorzelanny
    Hansen
    Jimenez

    Most of trhe pitchers we consider true TOR starters are below that.

    He K'd quite a few and gave up minimal HR's.
    Looks like alot of TOR guys there.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  8. #22
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Ya. The straight as an arrow part doesn't help.

    But Homer has a good shot at being a nice starter.
    I think he can maybe be a #3 but IMO he clearly doesn't have #1 or #2 stuff. But again I'm not positive of that which is why I am asking. Even guys who aren't there yet show something in their peripherals to suggest they have it in them.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  9. #23
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    19,134

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I think he can maybe be a #3 but IMO he clearly doesn't have #1 or #2 stuff. But again I'm not positive of that which is why I am asking. Even guys who aren't there yet show something in their peripherals to suggest they have it in them.
    I don't get hung up on #1 or #4 labels.

    He's got plus velocity and a plus curve. If he develops consistent command, he'll be a guy that could slide into anyone's rotation.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #24
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,178

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    95 and straight as an arrow doesn't necessarily equate to TOR, movement especially late movement is a much better indicator of stuff.

    Not sure what you want me to cite please explain? I though I had laid it out there pretty clearly.
    After reading the thread about who to start assuming the Reds make the playoffs and seeing quite a few people suggesting Homer at the top or near it I just couldn't believe what I was hearing
    Maybe I'm reading the wrong thread(s), but I don't recall "quite a few people" suggesting he's a TOR guy. Most I've seen suggest that he's a 3 or a 4. I was hoping you could point out those examples of people claiming he's a top of the rotation guy.

    But more to the point, how does a few people claiming something mean that he's overrated? The term overrated suggests a general consensus, or at least a commonly held opinion. I just don't see that. Maybe a few people overrate him -- but generally people seem to have a pretty realistic picture.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #25
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I don't get hung up on #1 or #4 labels.

    He's got plus velocity and a plus curve. If he develops consistent command, he'll be a guy that could slide into anyone's rotation.
    So you think his command (perhaps even control) is the reason his H/9 aren't yet where one would like to see for a TOR arm? I could maybe buy that as a potential answer.

    I'd like to see a few scouting reports that suggest his pitches are plus in movement. Or some pitchfx data to back it up.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  12. #26
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Maybe I'm reading the wrong thread(s), but I don't recall "quite a few people" suggesting he's a TOR guy. Most I've seen suggest that he's a 3 or a 4. I was hoping you could point out those examples of people claiming he's a top of the rotation guy.

    But more to the point, how does a few people claiming something mean that he's overrated? The term overrated suggests a general consensus, or at least a commonly held opinion. I just don't see that. Maybe a few people overrate him -- but generally people seem to have a pretty realistic picture.
    Fair enough let's put it to the test.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  13. #27
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    19,134

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    So you think his command (perhaps even control) is the reason his H/9 aren't yet where one would like to see for a TOR arm? I could maybe buy that as a potential answer.

    I'd like to see a few scouting reports that suggest his pitches are plus in movement. Or some pitchfx data to back it up.
    I think over the last two seasons we're seeing a guy that can generally throw strikes. I think he mostly gets hammered when he's got poor location.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,752

    Re: Homer Bailey, Overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Looks like alot of TOR guys there.
    And lot of TOR starters who aren't, including Wainwright, Carpenter, Santana and Halladay.

  15. #29
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,054

    Homer Bailey poll

    Does Homer have top of the rotation stuff? #1 or #2 starter type stuff in any rotation? (This was my post for the seperate poll but it was merged).
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 08-22-2010 at 04:00 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  16. #30
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,592

    Re: Homer Bailey poll

    I voted "not sure." Personally, I'm not sure I see TOR stuff in him. However, I recognize an awful lot of hitters have commented on his stuff, and since they're the ones that have to face it, I take into consideration it must be better than it looks.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


Turn Off Ads?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25