This ^^^^Originally Posted by oneupper
This ^^^^
You buy out arbitration, then if things are still agreeable and the price is reasonable, you buy out some free agency years with a second extension. "All in" doesn't have a very good success rate in professional sports, but esp. in the guaranteed contract world of MLB.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
why give an LTC now when his value is at his peak? Year to year will get you 3 more years and take Votto to 29. A million things could happen between now and then to fluctuate the value and the majority of them would lessen it. I'm fine with waiting until his last year of arbitration and then breaking the bank.
Why allow other suiters to make him offers? Going head to head with the Yanks, Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Mets? Yeah, no thanks. Lock him up now.
Agree. Give the guy a deserved raise. We've done things on the 'year to year' method for too long. It's not good business. What you spend you will recover with Joey Votto. He'll put fannies in the seats and if he's healthy we will contend.
We haven't committed to a guy in a long time. If don't build around Votto I don't believe we'll build around anyone.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
We committed to Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, and Brandon Phillips very recently. They have been worth the money, but now as they near the end of the contracts, I'm glad they were not longer than they were. Leaves the options open. Imagine one or two more backloaded years of Harang.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Harang and Arrpyo were pitchers approaching 30 when extended. Really no comparison.
Phillips is a good comparison, however. Same age, infielder.
So far, Phillips has provided the Reds $15.5M of excess value over the entire contract which has another year and an option to it. That means that Pnillips could not play another game and he would have provided $15.5M in excess value over the length of the contract. I would have no problem if his contract had an additional few years on it.
But here is the most important point about locking up Votto. If you do it every time, with every franchise player like Votto, in the end, the team will save money. I still would like to wait a year, since he's not going to get more expensive than he is now, but i would lock him up until his mid thirties when I do.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
Position players are much less risky than pitchers, though.
Phil Castellini puts the FUN in Trust Fund.
Sean Casey
For each year of security, you ask for one year of free agency. And you pay his free agent years fairly in today's market. You might also give him the option of a no-trade or pick 'em contract, thereby limiting the options of teams he might play for. For that, however, he'd need to knock some cash (say, $15 million) off the top.
Therefore:
2011: $7.5 million
2012: $10 million
2013: $12.5 million
2014: $15 million
2015: $17 million
2017: $20 million
TOTAL: 6/ $82.5 million
You offer a much smaller LTC to Bruce (5/$35 million) as well. If they accept, you've got two building blocks to anchor your lineup. Hopefully, others will also require LTCs. It means you're building a special team that will compete year after year.
LT committments were made, which was the point I was responding to.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
No one can make offers while he is under contract with the Reds. Wait until he is in the final year, or at least not after what could possibly be the best season of his career, to offer a contract that will take him to 35 or so.
If you wait until he is in his final year, he waits until AFTER that year, and opens up the bidding to absolutely everyone. Dumbest possible thing the Reds could do.
I've seen the dumbest moves the Reds could do (see Eric Milton and Josh Hamilton pinch hit for by Juan Castro, or more hypothetical ideas: move the team to Wyoming, sell 100% of the team to Marge Schott, turn the GABP into a giant skate bowl and play games at a little league field... all much more dumb), and that is blatant hyperbole. Too many what if situations for that to even be discussed right now. You don't sign LTC after career years, bottom line. How much is Pablo Sandoval worth right now compared to the end of last year?
Sure discuss numbers with his agent and if you think its a great deal 5/60 or something of the sort then go for it. But I'm not giving a 6/100 deal right now.
Last edited by thatcoolguy_22; 09-01-2010 at 05:57 PM.
Find one person here who would give Votto 6 yr 100 million right now.
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