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Thread: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Fascinating piece by Boswell today on Dunn's future in DC. Interesting because it balances out all the intricacies of today's game and the accompanying arguments.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090806582.html
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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Analyzing defense is still largely alchemy.
    Boswell is a wonderful writer; that's pure gold right there.

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    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Hard to believe there wouldn't be some AL team that would be a good fit for Dunn, as long as his salary demands aren't crazy.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Hard to believe there wouldn't be some AL team that would be a good fit for Dunn, as long as his salary demands aren't crazy.
    I think Dunn ultimately ends up in the AL, although I admire his desire to play both ways even though his defense is not that great.

    I also agree with Boswell's personal take on the situation, that the Nats would do well to keep Dunn in tandem with Zimmerman and as a bridge towards some of their up and coming talent.
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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Seattle or Anaheim would be great places for Dunn to DH.
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Seattle or Anaheim would be great places for Dunn to DH.
    Seattle is most likely going young next season which if true probably makes it unlikely they'd pursue Dunn.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Boswell is a wonderful writer; that's pure gold right there.
    But it's in the context of him conceding Dunn's defense is a major liability so he largely agrees with the "alchemy".
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    But it's in the context of him conceding Dunn's defense is a major liability so he largely agrees with the "alchemy".
    The alchemy remark was used within the realms of the author speaking of improving the Nat's team defense...not Dunn in specific. Not sure what your angle is but just realize....just b/c someone thinks Jonny Gomes (for ex.) is a poor defender....that doesn't mean they are in step with defensive metrics....some things are too obvious to misinterpret
    Last edited by kaldaniels; 09-12-2010 at 09:09 PM.

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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I think Dunn ultimately ends up in the AL, although I admire his desire to play both ways even though his defense is not that great.

    I also agree with Boswell's personal take on the situation, that the Nats would do well to keep Dunn in tandem with Zimmerman and as a bridge towards some of their up and coming talent.
    Saying he wants to play both ways may be admirable, but showing up in someone's camp at less than his listed 285 would make it more believeable. Even if I were to sign him as a DH, I would want him at at least 265-270 (preferrably 260) coming into camp if I were a GM.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 09-12-2010 at 10:00 PM.

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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    The alchemy remark was used within the realms of the author speaking of improving the Nat's team defense...not Dunn in specific. Not sure what your angle is but just realize....just b/c someone thinks Jonny Gomes (for ex.) is a poor defender....that doesn't mean they are in step with defensive metrics....some things are too obvious to misinterpret
    My angle is very straightforward-he described defensive metrics as alchemy and proceeded to concede their conclusions. His argument for Dunn rests upon 1) Dunn being credibility salvation if prospects don't pan out and he doesn't age like most true three outcome players typically do and 2) one poor defender doesn't doom a defense.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    My angle is very straightforward-he described defensive metrics as alchemy and proceeded to concede their conclusions. His argument for Dunn rests upon 1) Dunn being credibility salvation if prospects don't pan out and he doesn't age like most true three outcome players typically do and 2) one poor defender doesn't doom a defense.
    It just seems to me you are looking to discredit the author simply because he dared to describe defensive metrics as "alchemy", because you are appearing to expose him as a hypocrite but for the life of me I don't see it. As I mentioned before just because in one instance the author and defensive metrics reach the same conclusion....what does that show? Lets say I start a system of ranking players' worth using RBI as the main data point..just b/c we would each view Votto as valuable doesn't mean you support my system.

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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    You know a car wreck when you see one. Same with a bad first baseman.
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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    You know a car wreck when you see one. Same with a bad first baseman.
    Bingo.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    You know a car wreck when you see one. Same with a bad first baseman.

    Yep. Defensive metrics can be useful when you are, for example, trying to tell the difference in defense between a couple of players like Janish and Cabrera. But saying Dunn is a bad defensive player doesn't mean you are consciously using defensive metrics to judge him. Subconsciously, you are - like Boswell is by saying other 1st basemen can get balls that Dunn can't - but not overtly.
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    Re: WaPo Boswell: Future Nats Lineup Probably Won't Include Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    It just seems to me you are looking to discredit the author simply because he dared to describe defensive metrics as "alchemy", because you are appearing to expose him as a hypocrite but for the life of me I don't see it. As I mentioned before just because in one instance the author and defensive metrics reach the same conclusion....what does that show? Lets say I start a system of ranking players' worth using RBI as the main data point..just b/c we would each view Votto as valuable doesn't mean you support my system.
    Again, I was pointing to the disconnect in his argument.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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