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Thread: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

  1. #46
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    With nobody out, that's absolutely the right play. With one out, you don't want him going...
    Situationally it may be the right play, but there's more to making the decision to go than the situation. Votto got thrown out. That happens a lot with these guys and IMO takes more runs away than the extra bases add. The Reds run recklessly on the bases and while that nets them a lot of extra bases it winds up in a lot of needless outs. Good teams take extra bases w/o getting thrown out so much.

    Pretty much any play where a guy makes an out on the bases is a bad play IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  3. #47
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornon View Post
    I think you two are agreeing here, just getting confused on the wording. You make the play if there is nobody out when the play started, or when there's 1 out after the ball has been caught
    You are correct.

    As long as you remember "you don't make the first or third out of an inning at third", you are OK.

  4. #48
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    After five and a half innings, Reds 1, Pirates 0.

    Cueto at 99 pitches, 63 strikes.
    Burres at 75 pitches, 49 strikes.
    __________________
    "I think were starting to get to the point where people are starting to get tired of this stretch of ball, Votto said. I think something needs to start changing and start going in a different direction. Im going to do my part to help make that change.

  5. #49
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You are correct.

    As long as you remember "you don't make the first or third out of an inning at third", you are OK.
    There are no hard and fast rules. You do what you feel gives you the best chance of scoring the most runs.

    It doesn't matter how many outs there are. Each situation is different based on the pitcher, batter, lineup, outs, score, innings remaining, etc.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post

    Pretty much any play where a guy makes an out on the bases is a bad play IMO.
    I disagree. I'm not sure how you would quantify it, but it's important to put pressure on the defense and make them make plays. That's a big part of this Reds team IMO. It took a perfect throw to get Votto and that's what you got.
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  7. #51
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Situationally it may be the right play, but there's more to making the decision to go than the situation. Votto got thrown out. That happens a lot with these guys and IMO takes more runs away than the extra bases add. The Reds run recklessly on the bases and while that nets them a lot of extra bases it winds up in a lot of needless outs. Good teams take extra bases w/o getting thrown out so much.

    Pretty much any play where a guy makes an out on the bases is a bad play IMO.
    Statistically they've broken even when it comes to creating runs off of taking extra bases. That means it's at least been a net positive.

    Aggression is who this team is. It's winning for them more than it's losing. That's all I care about. Therefore, run away.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #52
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    I disagree. I'm not sure how you would quantify it, but it's important to put pressure on the defense and make them make plays. That's a big part of this Reds team IMO. It took a perfect throw to get Votto and that's what you got.
    That was a FB to CF and from CF to 3B isn't a long throw. Votto runs ok for a big 1B, but he's not exactly Stubbs. The Reds had a runner on 2B with 1 out and two of the team's hotter hitters in Ramon and Stubbs coming up. That is a pretty desirable situation that the team forfeited by trying to be too aggressive (reckless IMO). Had it been a faster runner or the FB to RF or different guys coming up, I might think its worth the chance, but giving up an out and a runner in scoring position with two of the teams hottest htters coming up is a bad play. If you are going to go there you better be sure you can make it.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  9. #53
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Reds making Morton & Burres look like Maddux & Glavine.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #54
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Very concerned about this Reds offense. Basically shut down by the Pirates in their own park. Very few hard hit balls. Hopefully Cueto goes 9 scoreless.
    This place use to be fun

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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    That was a FB to CF and from CF to 3B isn't a long throw. Votto runs ok for a big 1B, but he's not exactly Stubbs. The Reds had a runner on 2B with 1 out and two of the team's hotter hitters in Ramon and Stubbs coming up. That is a pretty desirable situation that the team forfeited by trying to be too aggressive (reckless IMO). Had it been a faster runner or the FB to RF or different guys coming up, I might think its worth the chance, but giving up an out and a runner in scoring position with two of the teams hottest htters coming up is a bad play. If you are going to go there you better be sure you can make it.
    Going only when you're 'certain' you can make it is a very passive way to run the bases. That's not this team's game. They are going to take risks and more often than not I feel like it has worked out. Sure, every now and then you're going to get thrown out. But you can't make it easy on the defense, especially against bad teams like the Pirates. If the defense knows that the Reds are going to put pressure on them when they get on the bases, the defense knows they have to play perfect and sometimes that causes tension and mistakes...
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  12. #56
    Who, What, Where, When? Tornon's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    Very concerned about this Reds offense. Basically shut down by the Pirates in their own park. Very few hard hit balls. Hopefully Cueto goes 9 scoreless.
    They'll be fine, just Bruce, Phillips, & OC are knicked up.

    Cueto's not going more than 1 more inning

  13. #57
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    Going only when you're 'certain' you can make it is a very passive way to run the bases. That's not this team's game. They are going to take risks and more often than not I feel like it has worked out. Sure, every now and then you're going to get thrown out. But you can't make it easy on the defense, especially against bad teams like the Pirates. If the defense knows that the Reds are going to put pressure on them when they get on the bases, the defense knows they have to play perfect and sometimes that causes tension and mistakes...
    So they gave them an out. That's the definition of making it easy on he defense (and the pitcher). They had a runner in scoring poistion and 1 out. You don't give that up because it might be a good idea. You try it when its a likely successful play.

    I love watching teams take the extra base, but there is a difference between making a decision based on some preprogammed game situations and actually making the right play on the field. This team gets thrown out a lot. They can still run, just stop once and a while when its too iffy a play.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So they gave them an out. That's the definition of making it easy on he defense (and the pitcher). They had a runner in scoring poistion and 1 out. You don't give that up because it might be a good idea. You try it when its a likely successful play.

    I love watching teams take the extra base, but there is a difference between making a decision based on some preprogammed game situations and actually making the right play on the field. This team gets thrown out a lot. They can still run, just stop once and a while when its too iffy a play.
    So is it only a good play based on the outcome? If that throw was a foot to the right and Votto slides in easily, would that be a good play?
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  15. #59
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So they gave them an out. That's the definition of making it easy on he defense (and the pitcher). They had a runner in scoring poistion and 1 out. You don't give that up because it might be a good idea. You try it when its a likely successful play.

    I love watching teams take the extra base, but there is a difference between making a decision based on some preprogammed game situations and actually making the right play on the field. This team gets thrown out a lot. They can still run, just stop once and a while when its too iffy a play.
    This team has been successful because of that style, not in spite of it. You want your cake and eat it too. You want them to take extra bases when it's easy, or when they're successful but without all the risk that comes with it. I got news: there are rarely any situations where you can take an extra base easily without risk of being thrown out.

    What you're asking is to take away the fundamental make-up of this club. I don't know why you'd want to do that. Clearly it doesn't always work, but it's winning them more games than not especially contributing to the dominant record against the bad teams.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #60
    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    And while you are all chatting away.... Pitt has them on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs....

    Bengals score a TD now 31-10
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