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Thread: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

  1. #61
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Surprised to see no chat of Cueto being pushed past 120 pitches. Shades of Dusty's time with the Cubs... Though with the way the pen has pitched, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. And Johnny still has his stuff.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #62
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Cueto through 7 shutout innings: 124 pitches, 78 strikes. He struck out 7, walked two, and gave up three hits and no runs. Nice outing.
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  4. #63
    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Cueto mans up and gets it done....

    124 pitches for Cueto through 7.
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Surprised to see no chat of Cueto being pushed past 120 pitches. Shades of Dusty's time with the Cubs... Though with the way the pen has pitched, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. And Johnny still has his stuff.
    Hopefully, they can clinch sooner rather than later and skip Cueto once or twice the rest of the year...
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
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  6. #65
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    There are no hard and fast rules. You do what you feel gives you the best chance of scoring the most runs.

    It doesn't matter how many outs there are. Each situation is different based on the pitcher, batter, lineup, outs, score, innings remaining, etc.
    No one is arguing that you do "what gives you the best chance of scoring the most runs".

    But if you are going to gamble going to third on a flyball, you are likely to increase you chances of scoring more runs when you do so with only one out, where you can score on a GB/FB etc.

  7. #66
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    It would be nice to get the bats out now and build a lead. I'd like to win a game straight up in this series.
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  8. #67
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Surprised to see no chat of Cueto being pushed past 120 pitches. Shades of Dusty's time with the Cubs... Though with the way the pen has pitched, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    Because he went over 120 once?

    Of course, there should also be wiggle room with the logic of doing it once in a while and doing it a lot.

    Personally I don't think it changes much of anything. If a player is conditioned and able to do it, I see nothing wrong with 120 pitches. But I especially think it's OK to stretch someone out once in a while.

    Pitch counts = irrational science.
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  9. #68
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    No one is arguing that you do "what gives you the best chance of scoring the most runs".

    But if you are going to gamble going to third on a flyball, you are likely to increase you chances of scoring more runs when you do so with only one out, where you can score on a GB/FB etc.
    I agree with that. I just was taking issue with the comment "you don't make the first out or third out" as if it's a law.

    As a rule of thumb, that philosophy is a good one. But it doesn't mean there are other situations that do and don't apply to when you take a base (or don't).
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #69
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    This team has been successful because of that style, not in spite of it. You want your cake and eat it too. You want them to take extra bases when it's easy, or when they're successful but without all the risk that comes with it. I got news: there are rarely any situations where you can take an extra base easily without risk of being thrown out.

    What you're asking is to take away the fundamental make-up of this club. I don't know why you'd want to do that. Clearly it doesn't always work, but it's winning them more games than not especially contributing to the dominant record against the bad teams.
    Obviously there will be some outs on the bases but runner on second with one out and .300 hitter coming up isn't the time to run unless its a sure thing.

    As for the reason for the Red's success, they have pretty much been at or near the top in OBP, Slugging and OPS all year. None of those are enhanced by taking extra bases, but making outs on the bases makes those stats less productive. I'd say having stats like those are the very reason that you don't want to be giving away outs or baserunners. Take the extra bases, but pick the spots better.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  11. #70
    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Bengals force a 3 and out!
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  12. #71
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsMan3203 View Post
    Bengals force a 3 and out!
    Pats must have taken Brady out....
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    "I think were starting to get to the point where people are starting to get tired of this stretch of ball, Votto said. I think something needs to start changing and start going in a different direction. Im going to do my part to help make that change.

  13. #72
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsMan3203 View Post
    Bengals force a 3 and out!
    They're going to need more than one of those...

    It's time for Stubbs to go BOOM! One man on, with two out...

    "This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and what could be again." -- Terence Mann

  14. #73
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Obviously there will be some outs on the bases but runner on second with one out and .300 hitter coming up isn't the time to run unless its a sure thing.

    As for the reason for the Red's success, they have pretty much been at or near the top in OBP, Slugging and OPS all year. None of those are enhanced by taking extra bases, but making outs on the bases makes those stats less productive. I'd say having stats like those are the very reason that you don't want to be giving away outs or baserunners. Take the extra bases, but pick the spots better.
    Unless you're seeing a different team than I, the Reds haven't been doing much of anything with the bats lately. Heck, they're having a hard time scoring against Morton (9 ERA) and Burres (6 ERA).

    Time to try and manufacture runs. Even when the Reds were hitting, it was the aggressive running that helped aid those large innings that won games for them.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #74
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Looks like Miguel Cairo has landed back on planet reality lately.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #75
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: 9/12 - Reds vs Pirates -- Sweep Time! No Bruce/Rolen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Surprised to see no chat of Cueto being pushed past 120 pitches. Shades of Dusty's time with the Cubs... Though with the way the pen has pitched, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. And Johnny still has his stuff.
    If Cueto is pitched like Prior was in Sept 2003, that would be worrisome. Prior had 5 of 6 games with 124 or more pitches, and 4 with 129 pitches or more. Shades is a good word, but it is a very lite shading.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein


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