Tale of two (emerging?) outfielders

[TRF]

In my Stubbs turnaround, I said he's a very light version of Adam Dunn. About half his power, half his walks and the same K rate. But he adds SB's and a fantastic percentage too, about 82% this year. What I don't get is the lack of doubles. Even Cabrera has more, a lot more in fact. Gomes, Bruce, Votto, Rolen. All have more doubles than the fastest guy on the team. just weird.

If he can manage to keep buying in to the fact that he doesn't have to be a slap hitter and start driving the ball, he could accumulate a lot of bases. I'd like to also see him be a little more aggressive when it comes to SB's too, especially 3rd base.

[Brutus]

In my Stubbs turnaround, I said he's a very light version of Adam Dunn. About half his power, half his walks and the same K rate. But he adds SB's and a fantastic percentage too, about 82% this year. What I don't get is the lack of doubles. Even Cabrera has more, a lot more in fact. Gomes, Bruce, Votto, Rolen. All have more doubles than the fastest guy on the team. just weird.

If he can manage to keep buying in to the fact that he doesn't have to be a slap hitter and start driving the ball, he could accumulate a lot of bases. I'd like to also see him be a little more aggressive when it comes to SB's too, especially 3rd base.

That's been surprising, although during this last 6 week spurt, he does have 9 doubles to his credit which is highly encouraging. It's been all or nothing with him prior to these past several weeks. But he seems to be putting a lot more in play, and that's translating to more extra base hits. Hopefully he can keep that up.

[kaldaniels]

Wasn't there a debate over Stubbs HRs from last Sept. - whether he truly had good power (b/c he never had big HR #s in the minors). Looks like that debate is over. The question is can Drew harness it?

[medford]

What has me most excited is that both players have filled in question marks this team has annually tried to answer each offseason going back some time. The team has been floundering for a center fielder for some time, and as mentioned above, Stubbs appears to be at worst a league average guy overall, and at best, one of the best overal CFers in the game one day. Meanwhile, the team has been looking looking for consitant power from the left side for a while now. Dunn and Griffey gave them that answer, so they thought, but unfortunately Griff was either injuried or at the tale end of his career for too long for that combo to ever prove fruitful.

Votto & Bruce look like a great pair of left handed power to build around, now they just need to get a right handed stick to mash between them. I like what Rolen has given this team, but to count on him next season would be foolish of this front office this offseason. Or I shoudl say, to count on him to produce like he has this season, as often as he has this season would be foolish. I'd count on him needing more off days (Francisco starting in his place 2x a week perhaps) and would ideally like to bat him 2nd ahead of Votto. Gomes isn't the answer, at least not on an everyday basis. Thankfully, left field seems to be a safe haven for a big stick, I'd like to see them put their resources there this offseason. Hopefully they've got an eye on Worth, but if not him, a trade partner than can man LF for the next couple of seasons and drive in runs like Kevin Mitchell.

[TRF]

Wasn't there a debate over Stubbs HRs from last Sept. - whether he truly had good power (b/c he never had big HR #s in the minors). Looks like that debate is over. The question is can Drew harness it?

I was the half that said he didn't. My argument was if a power hitter doesn't hit for power, then he doesn't have power. The strength to hit HR's and the ability to hit HR's are completely different.

His approach does seem better according to the numbers.

[lollipopcurve]

The strength to hit HR's and the ability to hit HR's are completely different.

You vehemently denied that he would develop the ability to hit HRs in the majors. It wasn't a semantic argument -- it was about Stubbs' worthiness as a prospect.

But hey, it's been settled.

[kaldaniels]

You vehemently denied that he would develop the ability to hit HRs in the majors. It wasn't a semantic argument -- it was about Stubbs' worthiness as a prospect.

But hey, it's been settled.

Yeah, please no sematics as surely everyone who was there knows the debate I was referring to.

[Cooper]

Stubbs has an extreme approach -he whips his bat through the zone -he rarely keeps his hands back though he does attempt to keep his weight back. I tend to think this kind of approach produces power while giving away balance. Imho, he might improve his contact rate by lengthening his base (spreading his legs apart)- this seems more obvious when he has 2 strikes.

[TRF]

What semantics? My argument as withstood the test of time. The Reds minor league system tried to make Stubbs into something he wasn't. I came around on the power, and pointed out multiple times that he just isn't a leadoff hitter.

I'm no fan of his OBP either. 170+ games and a .316 OBP in his career. He's had a good month and a half. Lets hope Brutus is right and it's a sign of things to come.

And nothing in my mind is settled after 170 games played when he put up numbers like he did in April, June and July. May was pretty fantastic though.

[Brutus]

What semantics? My argument as withstood the test of time. The Reds minor league system tried to make Stubbs into something he wasn't. I came around on the power, and pointed out multiple times that he just isn't a leadoff hitter.

I'm no fan of his OBP either. 170+ games and a .316 OBP in his career. He's had a good month and a half. Lets hope Brutus is right and it's a sign of things to come.

And nothing in my mind is settled after 170 games played when he put up numbers like he did in April, June and July. May was pretty fantastic though.

My question was: if you didn't think Stubbs' power was legit at the time, then what did you think the Reds were doing with him? With this speed and on-base skills being prevalent in the minors, and power not, why wouldn't it have made sense for them grooming him to be a leadoff hitter? It seems to me as if you created the "Reds making him into something he's not" only after Stubbs' started his power trip when he was called up last season, making it clear he did in fact have power.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember the leadoff issues coming into play until after his power came about in the Majors late last year.

EDIT: and by the way, I'm not really asking this to knock the power argument. That's done and over with and if he keeps it up, I have no doubt you'll be happy about that. It just came across as you changed the argument in revisionist fashion after the initial one didn't pan out.