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Thread: Paying College Athletes

  1. #46
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Well there's a few problems with the theory Scrap.
    1) The people come to see the names on the front of the jersey as much as the names on the back. So are those players necessarily adding to the amount of revenue being brought in? If UK brings in $50 million with John Wall, would it bring in $0 if he didn't come? The value John Wall provides isn't the amount of revenue the team brings in, but rather how much more revenue they could bring in with John Wall then without.

    2) It doesn't matter what it costs the university to provide the scholarships, it's about the value that the athletes receive for it.(In other words, what would they have to pay to receive 1)full room and board, 2)World class training and marketing if they decide to play professionally, and 3) WORLD CLASS MARKETING if they decide not to play professionally. Do you think the members of Kentucky's 93 team have an easier or harder time trying to move into sales positions around the state?

    All in all the value provided by the player probably exceeds the value provided by the university, but it's a contract each player enters into willingly.
    1) If they threw a basketball party and no players came, would it still be a basketball party? I don't care if John Wall makes a dime. I'm saying ALL Kentucky players deserve to be paid.

    2) Value is commesurate to how much cash is made overall. If UofL makes $52 million in a year (and it did), the players should receive a large portion of that. I don't care that they MIGHT make money at the next level, I don't care the pittance colleges give to student-athletes. I don't care about marketing. It's about the value of the service provided. Without all those man-child, glass-eating, quarterback-spearing, full-court diving behemoths, there is no game for the school to make money on.

    Would it blur the line between amateur and professional? Sure.

    So what?

    That line's been blurred so far that it's hardly recognizeable as a line anymore. Private high schools offer tens of thousands for 14-year-olds to play. Colleges offer mad money already. It's all a matter of degrees.
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  3. #47
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I'm sorry, I thought we were using common sense here.

    In 2001 (the last year I have notes for), Western Kentucky's basketball program made upwards of $24 million for the school. The only reason that $24-ish million was in the school coffers was because of those 13 guys on that team.

    Are you telling me you think it's okay that the school take all that cash, let the kid make the $15,000 (room and board, plus scholarship in that era) he "earned", and call everything honky dory?

    Really?

    Kentucky's licensing agreement is a million dollar money-maker for the school. (And thats just the merchandise. We're not talking about games tickets or anything else.) It's not because people like the dentistry program.

    Louisville's School of Medicine didn't make the school $52 million. But its sports programs did.



    When I was a kid, my Dad worked for L&N Railroad. At one point, he had to travel the rails of three states, supporting bridges, cutting ties, et al. The Railroad paid for his travel, his room, and his board.

    By your logic, that should be enough to satisfy that worker.
    Your analogy of comparing a business (railroad) with amateur athletics defies "common sense" as you put it.

    Let's use your Western Ky example. So do you think the Hilltopper basketball team deserves a paycheck but the girls team does not?

  4. #48
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    The girls' team made $4.5 million that year.
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Legal does not always equal right. Segregation and slavery were both legal at one point, too. Women were denied the vote for a very long time. Baseball had the odious reserve clause for most of the sport's history; does that make it right? You and I both know that the argument of "there are other leagues" is silly. Of course there are...let's not pretend the UFL is the same as the NFL. What the NCAA and major leagues do to control the labor pool is collusion in the purest form.

    Who are you to say what's right and wrong? Don't be so elitest as to say "it's right" like it's a fact or something. What's right is highly debatable.

    I say it's right for the professional leagues to set age standards. I think they ought to demand a certain amount of maturity from its athletes. Do you think the NBA should have been allowed to sign LeBron James out of 10th grade? That's nuts.

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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Your analogy of comparing a business (railroad) with amateur athletics defies "common sense" as you put it.

    Let's use your Western Ky example. So do you think the Hilltopper basketball team deserves a paycheck but the girls team does not?
    NCAA sports is a billion dollar industry.

    I'd call that a fairly large business.

    The only difference is that the railroad has to pay its workers a fair wage.
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Were I AD of a major Division I sports program, I'd really, really consider doing away with all sports that make no money. (I'd hope to find a women's program that at least break even. I'd still have to keep one or two because of Title IX.) That would put my program in the black every year.

    As AD I assume you'd have a football team and a men's basketball team. Combined you're looking at about 100 male scholarship athletes. At that point due to Title IX, you'd be obligated to come up with enough women's sports (all of which will likely lose money) to fill 100 roster spots. That would add up to far more than "one or two."

    Get real...

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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    If student athletes get paid to play then other students should get to take classes for next to nothing.

  9. #53
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    NCAA sports is a billion dollar industry.

    I'd call that a fairly large business.

    The only difference is that the railroad has to pay its workers a fair wage.
    The big difference is in college they don't have to pay the athletes any wage

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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The big difference is in college they don't have to pay the athletes any wage
    You're absolutely right. But they ought to.
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    You're absolutely right. But they ought to.
    Nahh. They're students and 99% of them are not stars worthy of anything more than a scholarship. Making exceptions for the other 1% makes no practical sense. Guys like Reggie Bush will eventually get their payday. I'm not worried about him

  12. #56
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    As AD I assume you'd have a football team and a men's basketball team. Combined you're looking at about 100 male scholarship athletes. At that point due to Title IX, you'd be obligated to come up with enough women's sports (all of which will likely lose money) to fill 100 roster spots. That would add up to far more than "one or two."

    Get real...
    Girls' basketball teams can make money. UofL's made serious bank two years ago. WKU operated in the black for more than 20 years. Vandy does. So does UT.

    UConn's WBB team is a cash cow.

    If done properly, a women's team can make bank.

    But if it doesn't, I'd find the cheapest teams to bankroll and do that. Golf is incredibly cheap to subsidize. So is cross country. Add those to volleyball and you've covered Title IX fairy easily. If you cut corners on teams that don't make money by hiring coaches as cheaply as possible and limiting travel to only necessary trips (and those with busses rather than air travel), you could limit the damage a team may inflict on your bottom line.

    In other words, give me a Division I program in football and basketball and I'd give you a sports program that continually ran in the black. A program that would make its university money. The best team money could buy.

    Or at least two out of five would be.
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  13. #57
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Girls' basketball teams can make money. UofL's made serious bank two years ago. WKU operated in the black for more than 20 years. Vandy does. So does UT.

    UConn's WBB team is a cash cow.

    If done properly, a women's team can make bank.

    But if it doesn't, I'd find the cheapest teams to bankroll and do that. Golf is incredibly cheap to subsidize. So is cross country. Add those to volleyball and you've covered Title IX fairy easily. If you cut corners on teams that don't make money by hiring coaches as cheaply as possible and limiting travel to only necessary trips (and those with busses rather than air travel), you could limit the damage a team may inflict on your bottom line.

    In other words, give me a Division I program in football and basketball and I'd give you a sports program that continually ran in the black. A program that would make its university money. The best team money could buy.

    Or at least two out of five would be.
    The thing is Title IX applies to travel, as well. The football team can't fly chartered trips, and stay in the best hotels, while the women's lacrosse team rides in 15 passenger vans, staying at Motel 6. We live in the 21st century, what you propose turns back the clock on gender equality, to the 1950s.
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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    NCAA sports is a billion dollar industry.

    I'd call that a fairly large business.

    The only difference is that the railroad has to pay its workers a fair wage.
    $10.5B from what I've read.

    But all that money gets plowed back into the universities. Either to provide a world-class programs like OSU football or Duke basketball and/or to fund all the other sports.

    For the NCAA (the recipient of TV contract and other moneys), 96% of the money goes back to schools, either directly or indirectly.

    http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...o+consider_one

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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I'm saying don't confuse football with golf, that's all. For the sole reason of basketball, Kentuckians spend hundreds of millions of dollars. It's not because of the educational facility. (Most UK fans can't spell either of those two words. )

    Those guys deserve to be paid something for that. They deserve to be paid rather substantially, too.

    Don't tell me you can't do that because of athletes in golf. It doesn't ring true.

    Now, I don't think it's possible to do it. I think too many colleges and universities would take advantage. I'm just saying they deserve to get paid. A lot.
    Without the University of Kentucky there isn't a basketball program. Without the University of Kentucky a guy like Eric Bledsoe doesn't get to perform on a platform that gets him drafted. Without the University of Kentucky Eric Bledsoe and his low GPA is probably working minimum wage jobs instead of singing a multi-million dollar NBA contract.

    You could also say that without the other teams in the SEC there isn't a basketball program. Or without the other teams in college basketball who play UK there isn't a basketball program. You aren't going to have a multi-million dollar program and the contracts and attendance if they are just scrimmaging themselves.

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    Re: Paying College Athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    NCAA sports is a billion dollar industry.

    I'd call that a fairly large business.

    The only difference is that the railroad has to pay its workers a fair wage.
    There are a few problems with your logic.

    1. You fail to include the value of the education itself. Studies show that a person with a college education stands to make far more money over their career over someone with only a high school diploma. Starting salaries alone are almost double and many fields requiire a degree as necessary for a job. Many will make millions over what they would have made without a degree.

    2. Aside from the few elite players, most of these student athletes will never play pro ball. That makes their free education all the more valuable.

    3. Outside the big programs, few D1 football and basketball programs make money. At best its a break even proposition. If schools had to pay their football and basketball players, you'd see a lot fewer programs than there are now. That would mean a lot fewer opportunities to get a college degree for kids from poor backgrounds.
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