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Thread: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

  1. #1
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    After a brief appearance by Carlos Gonzalez, it seems like the race for MVP is going to come down to Votto and Tulowitzki. Although I think Votto has had a more consistent season overall (Tulo missed some time due to injury and really didn't turn it on until the last few weeks), I think there is an argument for the Rockies SS to win, given the position he plays and what he has meant to Colorado's late-season surge toward the playoffs. Obviously, I'd love the Reds 1B to be the MVP--but I'm curious about what people think. Who is more deserving? How would you measure "deserving"?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    After a brief appearance by Carlos Gonzalez, it seems like the race for MVP is going to come down to Votto and Tulowitzki. Although I think Votto has had a more consistent season overall (Tulo missed some time due to injury and really didn't turn it on until the last few weeks), I think there is an argument for the Rockies SS to win, given the position he plays and what he has meant to Colorado's late-season surge toward the playoffs. Obviously, I'd love the Reds 1B to be the MVP--but I'm curious about what people think. Who is more deserving? How would you measure "deserving"?
    Why would a "surge" outweigh the consistent performer who led his team to the playoffs? Hopefully voters have more vision than that.

    I think Votto has the award on near lock down.
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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Votto may have alienated the Chicago and St Louis writers, which could cost him the award.
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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Why would a "surge" outweigh the consistent performer who led his team to the playoffs? Hopefully voters have more vision than that.

    I think Votto has the award on near lock down.
    I would think a surge could put a player over the top in the right situation. I'm not saying I agree with those who back Tulo, but it is an award for "valuable"--which is a highly subjective quality. Tulo has, no doubt, been extremely valuable to the Rocks, especially as a smooth-fielding SS and power hitter. If they do make the playoffs, I think he'll get some votes--and maybe even challenge Joey for the award.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    I have to chime in and defend Tulo for a minute here....

    People keep talking about a 'surge' and 'one great month', like he wasn't a gold glove caliber shortstop with an .890 OPS from April-August.

    Votto is still the MVP, but people need to back off the Tulo has only been good for one month stuff.

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    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    I think if Tulo would have played an entire season, it would be a dead heat between him and Votto. Particularly if the Rockies win the West.

    But Tulo missed a month+ of the season and that depressed his counting stats. Which, like it or not, matters a lot in the voters eyes.

    Votto will win in a landslide. The guy has had a magnificent season on a division winning team (fingers crossed).

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    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Love Tulowitzki as a player but I don't think you can give the MVP to a guy who's missed a quarter of his team's games.

    I'm going with the homer pick: Votto.
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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    If the Rocks make the playoffs I think Tulo will get it. The voters tend to vote on the hot player with the hot team at the end of the season. Miguel Tejada won an MVP with a very hot last six weeks or so a few years back.
    Votto should get it. He's been consistently very good all season and his team will be in the playoffs.
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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Tulo and Vott's home and away splits are interesting, at least to me.
    At home, Tulo has hit .341 with a .407 OBP and .635 SLG, with 14 HR and 54 RBI in 211 at bats. Away, Tulo has a line of .308/.374/.542 with 12 HR and 35 RBI in 214 at bats. As you would expect, Tulo's numbers are highly inflated by playing in Denver (although his stats are still good, for a shortstop, on the road).
    Vott has home numbers of .300/.397/.569 with 18 HR and 54 RBI in 253 at bats. Votto is a beast on the road: .344/.446/.623 with 17 HR and 52 RBI in 273 at bats.
    Votto is clearly the better hitter and hasn't missed as much of the season. Tulo would rank ahead of Votto only if you give him significant extra credit for being a shortstop IMO.
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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Sorry, but I'm just not buying the Tulo argument for the MVP. He simply missed too much of the year. Right now it's still a 3 man race between Votto, Pujols & Gonzales. With the Cards fading fast, so are Albert's chances. Votto's simply GOT to be leading this thing.

    Tulowitzki is 13th in HR's, 14th in RBI's, 33rd in 2b's, 41st in hits, 2nd in BA, 6th in OBP, 3rd in SLG and 4th in OPS.

    While Votto is 2nd in HR's, 3rd in RBI's, 13th in 2b's, 6th in hits, 3rd in BA, 1st in OBP, 2nd in SLG, and 1st in OPS.

    Sorry, Tulo's not even CLOSE at this point. Now if someone tosses in the SS argument...give him the Gold Glove...not the MVP. Technically the MVP should go to the most VALUABLE player, but it goes to the best player in the league in reality. But truth be told, it's Votto on both counts.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 09-22-2010 at 02:46 PM.
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  12. #11
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Given two guys of roughly equal value, I think it comes down to two things:
    1) What guy has fewer warts on his resume'?
    2) What's the dominant storyline?

    For #1, Votto is wart free, Tulo missed a BIG chunk of time. Tulo's team might miss the playoffs.
    For #2, Votto as MVP has been the story for the last 2 months. Tulo is going to have to continue to have an insane finish for his MVP story to get more momentum.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #12
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Here are the odds listed up to the minute at a sports book I use.... Votto is the runaway favorite. He's going to win it, Vegas says. Starting to look like the only other possibility would be the rest of the NL field. Interesting that Brandon Phillips is listed.

    Adrian Gonzalez
    +1200

    Albert Pujols
    +300

    Andre Ethier
    +3000

    Brandon Phillips
    +3000

    David Wright
    +3000

    Joey Votto
    -400

    Ryan Zimmerman
    +2500

    Ubaldo Jimenez
    +5000

    xz Field (Any Other Player)
    +200
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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    Also, I can see Tulo and CarGo splitting some Rockies friendly votes, just like Carpenter and Wainwright did last year for Cy Young.

    I think Joey has it all but locked up....
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  15. #14
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    I'd like to hear Brandon Phillips' thoughts on the matter.

  16. #15
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tulo vs. Votto for MVP?

    FWIW, Dave Cameron also seems to think that Tulo could be the MVP. He even makes the argument that he should be the choice:

    Even with Votto holding a +1 win advantage by WAR, I still think a vote for Tulowitzki is justifiable. WAR is more blunt hammer than precise chisel, so while it does a great job at telling you whether a player is good or bad, it is not designed to be used to separate out small differences among players having similar seasons. Votto’s +7.0 WAR isn’t so much better than Tulowitzki’s +6.1 WAR that we should definitely say that Votto has been more valuable. The best interpretation of those two numbers is that both have been fantastic, and that there’s room for discussion about which one has been better.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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