Turn Off Ads?
Page 15 of 15 FirstFirst ... 51112131415
Results 211 to 220 of 220

Thread: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

  1. #211
    Member OesterPoster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    West-central Ohio
    Posts
    2,085

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    I gave up on 'em early last night and watched Hot Tub Time Machine. I'm not sure which one was a bigger waste of time.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #212
    Member NJReds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    5,435

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    I was suprised that the MLB Network crew just killed the Reds last night while showing highlights of the Brewers scoring run after run.

    Basically they said:
    - Cueto's been horrible for the past month. (Actually he's been okay the last month until last night)
    - Cards folded ... Reds did everything possible to keep them in the race. Cards are a better team, though.
    - This (last night's game) shows that they have no pitching. Power pitching wins in the playoffs and the Reds have a bunch of soft tossers (?) ... (Okay, I'll give you Arroyo, but after that?)
    - For some reason they thought Harang would be in the rotation ... no mention of Bailey, Wood or Volquez.

    MLB Network is usually pretty spot on with analysis. But last night's barrage was one sided with zero credit given to the Reds for being in the position that they're in. I can't remember the crew. I think it was Harold Reynolds, Mitch Williams and another ex-pitcher.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  4. #213
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,598

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    I was suprised that the MLB Network crew just killed the Reds last night while showing highlights of the Brewers scoring run after run.

    Basically they said:
    - Cueto's been horrible for the past month. (Actually he's been okay the last month until last night)
    - Cards folded ... Reds did everything possible to keep them in the race. Cards are a better team, though.
    - This (last night's game) shows that they have no pitching. Power pitching wins in the playoffs and the Reds have a bunch of soft tossers (?) ... (Okay, I'll give you Arroyo, but after that?)
    - For some reason they thought Harang would be in the rotation ... no mention of Bailey, Wood or Volquez.

    MLB Network is usually pretty spot on with analysis. But last night's barrage was one sided with zero credit given to the Reds for being in the position that they're in. I can't remember the crew. I think it was Harold Reynolds, Mitch Williams and another ex-pitcher.
    Some of that has merit though. The Reds likely 1/2 game starters are going to be Arroyo and Cueto.

    That doesn't strike fear in anyone. Cueto has a k/9 comparable to Barry Zito right now. His stuff is severely overrated, IMO. He elevates way too much and doesn't have much snap on his slider.

    Hopefully the Reds somehow get deep into the playoffs and Edinson, Wood, and Homer get more starts.

    In the playoffs I don't see Cueto and Arroyo having much success. But in a short series anything can happen.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  5. #214
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,656

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Some of that has merit though. The Reds likely 1/2 game starters are going to be Arroyo and Cueto.

    That doesn't strike fear in anyone. Cueto has a k/9 comparable to Barry Zito right now. His stuff is severely overrated, IMO. He elevates way too much and doesn't have much snap on his slider.

    Hopefully the Reds somehow get deep into the playoffs and Edinson, Wood, and Homer get more starts.

    In the playoffs I don't see Cueto and Arroyo having much success. But in a short series anything can happen.
    Just curious, why do you need to be a power pitcher in the playoffs?
    -Jamie Moyer has a career 4.14 ERA, including one terrible outing in the NLCS where he went 1 1/3 and gave up 6 runs. Even still, his ERA is lower than his career average for regular season games.

    -Tom Glavine has a career 3.30 ERA in the playoffs while he has a career 3.54 ERA in the regular season.

    Are there any soft tossers who otherwise were good pitchers that couldn't perform in the playoffs?
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

  6. #215
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,598

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    There are always going to be outliers. The theory overall is that finesse pitchers rely alot on the overaggressiveness of weak offensive teams to swing at bad pitches. You aren't going to get the Phillies, Yankees, or Drays out with the same junk that gets Cubs, Pirates, and 'Stros hitters out.

    The better teams are going to force you to bring your finesse stuff into the zone and they probably are going to punish you. That or they will work you into a ton of pitches and get you later. It's very easy for even average pitchers to get into a groove against bad, hacking teams.
    That's at least the thought.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  7. #216
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,482

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    I agree with Cerdric about Cueto.

    I'm hoping Bailey and Volquez can keep up their recent success.

    I really think in order for the Reds to make it far in the playoffs they're going to have to go high risk/high reward with their rotation. Sure, Bailey and Volquez could implode at any time, but they give us the best chance at dominating an opponent too. I think the Reds are going to have to gamble this way to make it far. Maybe even throw Chapman into the rotation.

  8. #217
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,656

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    There are always going to be outliers. The theory overall is that finesse pitchers rely alot on the overaggressiveness of weak offensive teams to swing at bad pitches. You aren't going to get the Phillies, Yankees, or Drays out with the same junk that gets Cubs, Pirates, and 'Stros hitters out.

    The better teams are going to force you to bring your finesse stuff into the zone and they probably are going to punish you. That or they will work you into a ton of pitches and get you later. It's very easy for even average pitchers to get into a groove against bad, hacking teams.
    That's at least the thought.
    And I understand the theory, I just don't know if there's any evidence supporting that. ALL pitchers make their numbers in games where they are going well and ALL pitchers coincidentally have those games more often against bad offenses than good ones.


    I suppose it could be said that "finesse pitchers," which I wouldn't categorize Cueto as anyway, have less of a margin for error, or more of a chance at getting blown out, but I haven't seen much evidence that says they can't be effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

  9. #218
    Bat Flippin’ Awesome Puig Your Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    29,047

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    There are always going to be outliers. The theory overall is that finesse pitchers rely alot on the overaggressiveness of weak offensive teams to swing at bad pitches. You aren't going to get the Phillies, Yankees, or Drays out with the same junk that gets Cubs, Pirates, and 'Stros hitters out.

    The better teams are going to force you to bring your finesse stuff into the zone and they probably are going to punish you. That or they will work you into a ton of pitches and get you later. It's very easy for even average pitchers to get into a groove against bad, hacking teams.
    That's at least the thought.
    Did you not watch the White Sox run to the World Series a few years ago?
    Mark Beuhrle
    Freddy Garcia
    Jon Garland
    Jose Contreas

    Which one of those is a power pitcher? Cueto's not a finesse pitcher either.

    Btw before last night Cueto had 4 september starts, and had gone 23 innings while giving up 7 earned runs. His K/BB in those 4 starts was 20/5, and all four of his starts were QS.

    If that's horrible then, umm, okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

  10. #219
    Bat Flippin’ Awesome Puig Your Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    29,047

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I agree with Cerdric about Cueto.

    I'm hoping Bailey and Volquez can keep up their recent success.

    I really think in order for the Reds to make it far in the playoffs they're going to have to go high risk/high reward with their rotation. Sure, Bailey and Volquez could implode at any time, but they give us the best chance at dominating an opponent too. I think the Reds are going to have to gamble this way to make it far. Maybe even throw Chapman into the rotation.
    No. Wood and Cueto have both been supperior pitchers to Volquez and Bailey all season. Don't throw guys out there in the playoffs and hope because they throw hard.

    Not to mention the fact that Cueto's stuff is every bit as good as Bailey's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

  11. #220
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    19,568

    Re: 9/22 - Reds at Brew Crew - Yonder's first start

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Some of that has merit though. The Reds likely 1/2 game starters are going to be Arroyo and Cueto.

    That doesn't strike fear in anyone. Cueto has a k/9 comparable to Barry Zito right now. His stuff is severely overrated, IMO. He elevates way too much and doesn't have much snap on his slider.

    Hopefully the Reds somehow get deep into the playoffs and Edinson, Wood, and Homer get more starts.

    In the playoffs I don't see Cueto and Arroyo having much success. But in a short series anything can happen.
    Except those same "soft tossers" held the Brewers to 2 runs Monday and 1 run Tuesday until the 2 spot in the 9th, so there really is no merit to the analysis. Cueto didn't have anything last night. Free pass for the entire season's body of work.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | JaxRed | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator