Shopping for a New Car

[Kingspoint]

Subarus are notorious for having odd engineering, like the stupid Y pipe that held two catalytic converters. The Y pipe would fail at the manifold, leaving owners to purchase a $600 part for a 1/2 hour repair. Subarus also tend to have a lot of weird, ticky tacky problems. The one I currently own has several minor electrical problems and a malfunction with a couple engine sensors that are always activating the "check engine" light. Granted, it's a '98, but it also only has 85K miles.

I owned a ford Ranger pickup for thirteen years and have always been a fan of the drive trains they use for them, based on Mazda. I think the Escape might also use Mazda transmissions, especially if you are looking at one with a 2.3 (a great Ford engine).

In this class, though, I would probably look hard at the CRV. I love Honda engines, and have always liked the solid construction of their smaller cars. I've driven a couple CRVs, and have liked the feel of them. They are tightly, well built vehicles.

Anything Jeep- pass.

A '98? That's such a long time ago, technology-wise. Subaru then and Subaru now are completely different vehicles. BTW, a lot of the '98's leak oil from the head gaskets, and need them replaced. That's their biggest issue for that year. You haven't had that, so that's good. It's about time for your timing chain to be replaced, though. Would be a good time to sell.

[Kingspoint]

I've driven mine through pretty bad snow and off road in the gullies that pass for roads in the Hoosier National Forest. But it's all about clearance and I'll grant that deep snow is not passable unless your differential is out of the way. But in 99.9% of other road situations, it's the best car for the money. If you want to plan for blizzards, buy a dump truck.

The clearance of the drivetrain on a Subaru Outback is greater than most SUV's. I can't remember, but I think the Forester is 1/2-1" shorter than the Outback, but still beats most SUV's.

[Kingspoint]

With the economy and the advent of the "certified used" programs and the markup that comes with the certification, used cars aren't necessarily the bargian they once were. If you can find out the financing options, rebates, factory to dealer incentives, and the like, most of which is available online, you can often get better deals on new cars than used. The manufacturers are doing everything they can to get new cars off the lot. Our last car we purchased new was actually cheaper than some of the same model used after all the deals were figured in. And because we went through the internet, they started negotiating at invoice and went down rather than starting at MSRP.

Correct all around. If you're willing to stick with "standard" models, then you can pay the same price for a new car than you will for a 1-year old, and sometimes 2-year old vehicle.

[Kingspoint]

But in 99.9% of other road situations, it's the best car for the money.

I agree.

On average, people with the highest IQ's buy Subarus [and the highest credit scores, and the most loyal, and the most anal-retentive (nothing personal, SunDeck...take it as a complement if it fits)], according to the auto demographics. There's a reason for this.

[NeilHamburger]

I know it's not what you want, but it does speak for Honda's. I have a 2006 Honda Accord Coup with 42,000 on it. And I haven't had one problem with it in 4 years. Nothing has needed to be fixed yet.

[Kingspoint]

When you go to get your "new" car, the lowest price you can get, other than a loss-leader, is to use your "Costco" card, and get the "Costco price". It's $100 over invoice, usually, and it's not made up or anything. It's true invoice. The dealership doesn't make much money on it other than bonuses from Manufacturers, but they are still glad to move the inventory and hopefully win a customer. They will show you the invoice, you'll see the cost, there's no negotiating, and you'll get the best deal you can. It's pretty cut-and-dry. You can try to pay less, but they can also tell you to get out of their dealership (not likely to happen), but they'll politely tell you that they can't go any lower than the $100 over invoice, and 95% of the time, that's true, as they aren't making money on that deal. If they had some strange "numbers" they were trying to get on the last day of the month, then maybe, but it's not worth it to try to haggle over $100 that you're not likely to get.

Most companies work with this "Costco" program. Just call the dealership and ask them if they do "Costco" deals. Some could lie, but they will have a piece of paper from Costco that states specifically what the "Costco Deal" is, such as $250 over invoice for this model, or $100 over invoice for this model. Any reputable dealer will have no problem showing you that paper, too. They HAVE TO show you the invoice.

"Loss Leaders" though, can be "under" invoice, and usually are. Most dealerships will only have one or two of them, hide them in the back, and try to discourage you from buying them. Some dealerships will have several because they want to move some metal, and will have them on display.

What's so cool about cars, is that there's a type of vehicle that's "best" for everyone, depending on what's important to you. Most new cars today are made really well when you compare them to 10 years ago and 20 years ago and then 30 years ago.

[SunDeck]

I agree.

On average, people with the highest IQ's buy Subarus [and the highest credit scores, and the most loyal, and the most anal-retentive (nothing personal, SunDeck...take it as a complement if it fits)], according to the auto demographics. There's a reason for this.

That's good to know- except for the anal retentive part.
It took thirteen attempts to get this post just right.

[RollyInRaleigh]

By the way, Caveat, we got the EX-L model. No navigation system as I felt it was a waste with my droid phone basically doing the same thing.

[LoganBuck]

By the way, Caveat, we got the EX-L model. No navigation system as I felt it was a waste with my droid phone basically doing the same thing.

I usually start doing research on vehicles way too far in advance. My wife drives a '05 Buick Rendezvous. It has 125,000 miles, and she does about 27,000 miles per year. We live on a back road, and AWD or 4WD, is a must. I am starting to look at vehicles for her. My brother in law just got rid of his 2006 Honda CR-V. He liked it, but he has back problems, and found the lumbar support to be lacking all the way around, and got rid of it in favor of an Accord with with the higher quality seats. I would not buy a CRV unless I was getting the EX-L

If you want an Equinox, try looking for a GMC Terrain instead. One of the families on my son's soccer team just got one. I asked about it, because I knew how hard they were to come by. He said that the Terrain's are more available, dealerships are looking to just do volume right now, any volume. There are two sides to the car buying equation. If you are doing a trade, drive a harder bargain on your trade in. Clean it up inside and out, including the engine compartment.

BTW Honda dealerships typically start the better deals in October on "old inventory".

[Razor Shines]

I have a Mazda CX-7 with the technology package and a Bose sound system and I absolutely love it. It's a turbo so there's a little more risk, but I'm very careful with the upkeep and haven't had any issues.

[Redsfaithful]

I have a 2005 Ford Escape, bought it used back in '07 and have had nothing but a good experience with it, for whatever that's worth. Easy maintenance, no headaches so far. Getting up over 100k miles just lately so we'll see how it goes now but so far so good.

[GIK]

2008+ Escape. The Subie would probably be nice as well. Just test drove a Patriot (we're car shopping as well) and did not like it - too low, too small and the back hatch opening is TINY.

[Caveat Emperor]

I have a 2005 Ford Escape, bought it used back in '07 and have had nothing but a good experience with it, for whatever that's worth. Easy maintenance, no headaches so far. Getting up over 100k miles just lately so we'll see how it goes now but so far so good.

I'm scheduled to test drive the Subaru and the Ford Escape sometime this weekend. I was on a Ford lot this past weekend, and I came away underwhelmed with the build-quality of the Escape. For one, it was the most cramped SUV I've sat in (a big issue for me, being so tall), and the layout felt extremely counter-intuitive. I'll reserve full judgment until I actually get the car out on the road, but as of right now it's at the bottom of my list.

I have a Mazda CX-7 with the technology package and a Bose sound system and I absolutely love it. It's a turbo so there's a little more risk, but I'm very careful with the upkeep and haven't had any issues.

I like Mazdas a lot, but getting the CX-7 w/ AWD bumps the price significantly out of my range. Great car, though.

My brother in law just got rid of his 2006 Honda CR-V. He liked it, but he has back problems, and found the lumbar support to be lacking all the way around, and got rid of it in favor of an Accord with with the higher quality seats. I would not buy a CRV unless I was getting the EX-L

That's good to know -- one of the biggest "dislikes" I have about cars in general (not just the CRV) is the inability to mix and match various features across trim levels. I'd like to be able to get a car that has quality seating (leather, heating, power adjust, aforementioned lumbar adjust), but in most if not all cars, those kinds of things are only available when you move to the top of the line model. Of course, you get a boatload of other features you may or may not care about, and the price jumps accordingly as well.

No real updates right now -- I cleared my schedule this week because I thought I had a jury trial that was going to start yesterday afternoon, but that ended up pleaing out.

[Kingspoint]

Find some railroad tracks for your test drives and go over them. Find a way to do some off-road on your test drives.

[SunDeck]

One funny thing I found comparing domestic and imports used to be the placement of drink holders. Subaru was terrible at it ten years ago- mine for instance opens up so that the cup is in the way of the radio and climate controls. American cars had a leg up because their engineers understood that we need to have drinks with us all the time. Installing drink holders was a no-brainer for them, but for imports it was always an add on. That's all changed now, of course. I think the Honda Odyssey has 37 drink holders.