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Thread: Drug addiction (formerly of the "Hamilton for Volquez" thread)

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Drug addiction (formerly of the "Hamilton for Volquez" thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What he did as a Ranger means nothing though. As a Red, Volquez has a 3.62 ERA (120 ERA+), 308.1ip, 320K, 160BB and 26HR allowed. That is a #2 starter.

    Now, numbers wise, the Rangers have gotten the better end so far (5.6 wins for Volquez, 13.4 for Hamilton). Still, all Hamilton has to do is fail one test, just one bad night and he is out of baseball forever. You can't place a value on that, but even with how it is now, I wouldn't trade Volquez for Hamilton today if the Rangers called about it.
    All Volquez has to do is fail one drug test and he is done for a year minimum. Lets not overlook that when talking about Hamilton's past history.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    All Volquez has to do is fail one drug test and he is done for a year minimum. Lets not overlook that when talking about Hamilton's past history.
    Hamilton was a serious drug addict. Volquez claims he didn't even take anything. If you can't see the difference there, then I don't know what to tell you.

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    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    This picture is all I need to see

    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    --the personal history of Hamilton being one of them (though I think it's unfair to call him a drug addict as it seems he has put those demons behind him to this point)
    Hamilton will stop being an addict the day his heart stops forever. It is what it is. there is no such thing as an ex-addict.

    And we are talking hard stuff here. Hamilton is the very definition of "no prior comp". There has never been an athlete of his stature that became addicted to drugs the way he is and returned to a high level of play. Doctors don't even know what that drug use has done to his body. Hamilton's baseball track record prior to the trade was one half MLB season, and nothing above High A in the minors. We all know this. 2007 could have been a fluke and the Reds needed pitching. Volquez warts were more tangible. High K rate, but lacking control. That's something scouts and coaches see as "fixable".

    Crack addiction, not so much.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    This picture is all I need to see

    Doesn't mean much. I've seen some of our guys in similar pictures.

    Just because Hamilton had a setback with his personal demon of alcohol and posed for some funny pictures does not necessarily mean he's back to the depths of his one time troubles.

    Media, primarily internet blogs; made a large deal out of these Hamilton pictures. The incident was no more than him having a few drinks and posing for some pictures in good fun with some fans.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
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    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Doesn't mean much. I've seen some of our guys in similar pictures.

    Just because Hamilton had a setback with his personal demon of alcohol and posed for some funny pictures does not necessarily mean he's back to the depths of his one time troubles.

    Media, primarily internet blogs; made a large deal out of these Hamilton pictures. The incident was no more than him having a few drinks and posing for some pictures in good fun with some fans.
    It's never "good fun" when you're an addict. As I recall, Hamilton was quoted as saying that he tried to find coke that night. If he had succeeded, his career would have been over the next day.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Another reason.... Josh Hamilton did not participate in the Rangers celebration after they clinched because of the alcohol. It is that serious.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Well, lets make two points here.... You are assuming Volquez lied. Maybe he isn't (granted, maybe he is). The difference is, Volquez has a story that he can back up, now whether that is why he had a positive, we will never truly know, but his story about the drugs he got, is legit.

    And at the end of the day, steroids/hgh/whatever other PEDs aren't the same as crack. They just aren't. If you have never dealt with someone who was a serious drug addict, I can understand you not getting that point. As someone who has dealt with multiple in my life, let me just assure you, its real. Its scary. And the threat of going back for them is incredible.
    What if Edinson and his wife want to have a second child?

    There is risk that is involved with Hamilton. Every addict has a lifelong struggle ahead of them. But there are people who beat addiction. There are people who are successful for the rest of their lives at avoiding addiction. There have been no studies about the destructive nature of abuse 5 years down the road. To suggest that there haven't been addicts playing sports is naive. IIRC Lawrence Taylor admitted that he played the majority of his games high. Mickey Mantle was a functioning alcoholic during his HOF days with the Yankees. There is nothing there to say that Hamilton will stay clean for the rest of his life, but there is also nothing there to suggest that he won't stay clean. IMO he is a generational type of talent, you take that risk and get him the best support system available.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Hamilton will stop being an addict the day his heart stops forever. It is what it is. there is no such thing as an ex-addict.

    And we are talking hard stuff here. Hamilton is the very definition of "no prior comp". There has never been an athlete of his stature that became addicted to drugs the way he is and returned to a high level of play. Doctors don't even know what that drug use has done to his body. Hamilton's baseball track record prior to the trade was one half MLB season, and nothing above High A in the minors. We all know this. 2007 could have been a fluke and the Reds needed pitching. Volquez warts were more tangible. High K rate, but lacking control. That's something scouts and coaches see as "fixable".

    Crack addiction, not so much.
    That is a very ignorant view to hold. To suggest that no one overcomes an addiction is a slap in the face to thousands and millions of people that have and do overcome their demons. Drunks, druggies, sexual deviants, it can and does happen. Every day it happens. Is it the exception? Probably. But a person that is devoted and disciplined and committed to making it work can do so.

    I've seen it and I'm sure if you really want to allow yourself to admit it, you have too.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Another reason.... Josh Hamilton did not participate in the Rangers celebration after they clinched because of the alcohol. It is that serious.
    I don't understand criticizing a guy for keeping him out of situations that could be tempting. Seems like we should be applauding him for that. It's unfortunate in the aforementioned circumstances, but we should still be applauding him for keeping away from temptation. That's the surest way to recovery.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    That is a very ignorant view to hold. To suggest that no one overcomes an addiction is a slap in the face to thousands and millions of people that have and do overcome their demons. Drunks, druggies, sexual deviants, it can and does happen. Every day it happens. Is it the exception? Probably. But a person that is devoted and disciplined and committed to making it work can do so.

    I've seen it and I'm sure if you really want to allow yourself to admit it, you have too.
    My sister is an addict.

    My mother is an addict.

    My brother is an alcoholic, as is my uncle. All this runs in my family to such a degree that I never drink. It scares me that much. In the last 10 years I don't believe I have had a full six pack of beer. I won't even go near anything harder.

    It isn't ignorant at all. Hamilton himself would tell you he's an addict until he dies even if he never takes another drug. My wife quit smoking for 6 years. She started again last year. Addiction can be managed but never cured. that's the nature of addiction.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    My sister is an addict.

    My mother is an addict.

    My brother is an alcoholic, as is my uncle. All this runs in my family to such a degree that I never drink. It scares me that much. In the last 10 years I don't believe I have had a full six pack of beer. I won't even go near anything harder.

    It isn't ignorant at all. Hamilton himself would tell you he's an addict until he dies even if he never takes another drug. My wife quit smoking for 6 years. She started again last year. Addiction can be managed but never cured. that's the nature of addiction.
    Sure it can be cured. If you stay away from it and stop abusing it, then you've stopped becoming an addict. People do it all the time. No one says it's easy. Certainly the temptation may not go away. But doing it and being tempted to do it are very different. We are all constantly tempted by something in life. We're all addicts. Some of us control our vices, others don't. It's the resistance or lack thereof that separate the addicts from the abusers.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Sure it can be cured. If you stay away from it and stop abusing it, then you've stopped becoming an addict. People do it all the time. No one says it's easy. Certainly the temptation may not go away. But doing it and being tempted to do it are very different. We are all constantly tempted by something in life. We're all addicts. Some of us control our vices, others don't. It's the resistance or lack thereof that separate the addicts from the abusers.
    Controlling an addiction and curing it are not the same thing.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Controlling an addiction and curing it are not the same thing.
    But you're cured when you stop giving in to temptation. The temptation may never be cured, but that's not what defines an addict. It's the follow-through.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton for Volquez - then & now

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Controlling an addiction and curing it are not the same thing.



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