Drug addiction (formerly of the "Hamilton for Volquez" thread)

[Brutus]

I'm happy for your cousin. I'm thrilled he's managed his addiction. I bet he'd tell you that managing his addiction isn't the same as curing it. He's not cured, and he never will be. He knows this, and you should too.

The likelihood of a relapse for Hamilton was great following that breakout season with the Reds. His drug history, and the unknown damage it has done to his body were probably the driving factors for trading him. Didn't hurt that the Rangers needed some offense at the time. It was risk-risk for both teams, and considering the fact that EV had TJ surgery and Hamilton is coming off a poor injury riddled 2009, I'd say the risk was equally shared. Going forward, the only real risk to EV's career is the normal risk for pitchers: throwing the ball. Hamilton has to deal with a body that may be prone to breaking down from the drug abuse AND the car accident and the possibility of a relapse. Advantage Reds.

When I said people could be "cured" I worded it poorly. Though I tried clarifying that position, I may have done a poor job. What I meant, though, was that I totally agree that in most cases, the temptation--the urge to possibly relapse--probably never goes away. I don't really deny that. I think that's honestly true for a lot of addictions. Obese people that lose a hundred or more pounds probably never lose the urge to overeat. But what I mean is that once you've taken a hold of your addiction and stop let it consuming your life, I believe you have cured yourself because it's no longer an addiction if you're not falling for your temptations. I can understand the apprehension about calling something a "cure" if it has the ability of relapse. But when you stop letting your addiction take over, you are, at least at that point in time, not an addict.

[Brutus]

About baseball yes, about drug use no.

If we're gonna discuss an addict, then we should be able to discuss the addiction. Civil discussions without latitude to discuss germane anecdotes that exist on the periphery kind of take away from the spontaneity of a discussion forum.

This is indeed a baseball board. However, the game of baseball is played by individuals that have demons, which unfortunately, exist in the public realm. Trades, conflicts and other personnel decisions are often about these real-world problems that we all have personal testaments to. It seems like dogma to ruin a naturally occurring discussion based on the ideal that someone thinks it isn't relevant when the participants think that it is.

[reds44]

Are people actually comparing Volquez's "drug use" to Hamilton's?

I've seen people on here call Volquez "immature" before, well then what do you call Josh Hamilton? Folks, last year Josh Hamilton blamed his drunken night at the bar on the bartenders. He said the bartender wanted to get him drunk and take pictures of him. That's not immature?

Josh Hamilton can't have a car. He can't have a credit card. He can't have more than $20 on him at any given time. He has to one of the Narron brothers following him around at all times. Anybody trying to equate Volquez's 50 game suspension and Hamilton's drug problem, I'm sorry, but that's just one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

His drug/alcohol problem is so bad he couldn't have alcohol touch his skin for fear of a relapse.

I know people here love the Josh Hamilton story, but it's a dark dark story and he's a guy who still has a lot of demons.

[westofyou]

If we're gonna discuss an addict, then we should be able to discuss the addiction. Civil discussions without latitude to discuss germane anecdotes that exist on the periphery kind of take away from the spontaneity of a discussion forum.

This is indeed a baseball board. However, the game of baseball is played by individuals that have demons, which unfortunately, exist in the public realm. Trades, conflicts and other personnel decisions are often about these real-world problems that we all have personal testaments to. It seems like dogma to ruin a naturally occurring discussion based on the ideal that someone thinks it isn't relevant when the participants think that it is.

Well if you want go ahead, but I find most of it to be opinions after awhile.

Here's mine

All drugs should be legal period.

[Brutus]

Well if you want go ahead, but I find most of it to be opinions after awhile.

Here's mine

All drugs should be legal period.

I suppose so. I guess it's a good thing, then, message boards are a place for opinions!

Regarding your addendum, I'm for personal freedom and choices and against government agencies telling us what we can and cannot intake, inhale, consume, etc. So at the risk of you being facetious and me taking the bait, I agree.

[Cedric]

When I said people could be "cured" I worded it poorly. Though I tried clarifying that position, I may have done a poor job. What I meant, though, was that I totally agree that in most cases, the temptation--the urge to possibly relapse--probably never goes away. I don't really deny that. I think that's honestly true for a lot of addictions. Obese people that lose a hundred or more pounds probably never lose the urge to overeat. But what I mean is that once you've taken a hold of your addiction and stop let it consuming your life, I believe you have cured yourself because it's no longer an addiction if you're not falling for your temptations. I can understand the apprehension about calling something a "cure" if it has the ability of relapse. But when you stop letting your addiction take over, you are, at least at that point in time, not an addict.

That's what everyone has said. Just because you are always an addict that doesn't mean you are actively failing in recovery.

Recovery never ends, therefore the addiction never ends.

And you are darn right telling clients they are always going to be an addict is a great treatment tool. If I told my clients that their recovery was now over because they had for a period stopped their cravings... All Hell would break loose.

I respect your debating skills throughout this thread. You quite frankly are wrong though.

[RFS62]

YouTube - Robert Palmer - Addicted To LoveSome addictions aren't so bad....

[Dom Heffner]

We got Hamilton for nothing. There was never any risk.

The only one who has failed a drug test is Edinson Volquez.

Bottom line is if you get one MVP caliber season from Hamilton and you got him for free, what is the risk?

Actually, if he had three Darrel Cheney type seasons and you got him for free, where is the risk?

I'll take upside with zero investment everytime.

[Dom Heffner]

"Josh Hamilton can't have a car. He can't have a credit card. He can't have more than $20 on him at any given time. He has to one of the Narron brothers following him around at all times. Anybody trying to equate Volquez's 50 game suspension and Hamilton's drug problem, I'm sorry, but that's just one of the dumbest things I've ever seen."

And Edinson Volquez has a car and a credit card and all those things but he isn't as good as a baseball player as Josh Hamilton and it isn't close.

Corey Patterson probably has sterling credit and a gold AmEx card but I wouldn't trade Josh Hamilton for him.

Those poor Texas Rangers...look at all the trouble they are having with a guy they paid 3 times more than the Reds had invested in Hamilton.

[Dom Heffner]

We got Hamilton for nothing. There was never any risk.

The only one who has failed a drug test is Edinson Volquez.

Bottom line is if you get one MVP caliber season from Hamilton and you got him for free, what is the risk?

Actually, if he had three Darrel Cheney type seasons and you got him for free, where is the risk?

I'll take upside with zero investment everytime.

[Ravenlord]

as to other comments in this thread, if you have never had to deal with a loved one or yourself as an addict, thank your lucky stars and whatever deities you pray to. (not going to comment on the baseball side of this as its now in NNBC).

it runs in my family and i enjoy alcohol. i watched a cousin i was very close to die from a cocaine overdose when i was 14 because the 911 operator hung up on me twice. i have helped in the rehab of several other family members. because it is so strong in my family, i have an outstanding order that if any of them think i'm too deep into the cup i'll stop drinking for at least a year, if not all together.

addiction sucks, and it never stops.

YouTube - Ferguson Speaks From The Heart