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Thread: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

  1. #181
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Six inches outside isn't "generous". its ridiculous. Plenty of bad calls inside too.

    It's not just the calls. It's the expectation of those calls. Batters figured out early that the zone was six inches wider on each side and went up there hacking. There are hardly any close balls called.

    This and my eyes confirm OCab's theory. Zone was wide. Very wide.

    Perhaps in my lifetime we'll see an automatic ball/strike system, but I'm not counting on it. Here's where MLB can still exert influence for their "scripts". MLB wanted this no-hitter and it happened.
    I'm not sure what you're seeing, but I count only 5 pitches called all night that were called that don't border up on the zone or are completely inside it. Three of those five are within 2-3 inches.

    Clearly, you've never had to umpire a baseball game. That's a darn good zone.

    If you were to total up every called pitch in that chart, he got over 90% of them correct. How is that not a good zone?
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #182
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    One game. No matter how it went down, it was one game.

    Beat Oswalt Friday, and you have a good start toward making Halliday a footnote.

  4. #183
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    As crappy as tonight was, I still love my Reds. Win Friday night and tonight is forgotten.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #184
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I'm not sure what you're seeing, but I count only 5 pitches called all night that were called that don't border up on the zone or are completely inside it. Three of those five are within 2-3 inches.

    Clearly, you've never had to umpire a baseball game. That's a darn good zone.

    If you were to total up every called pitch in that chart, he got over 90% of them correct. How is that not a good zone?
    Since you like these things here is John Hirshbecks' calls for this year from a nifty little tool Joe Lefkowitz's site (whoever that is).



    See any difference? I do. Inside strikes. None. Low strikes. Nope.
    Wide zone? No.

    OCabs point is valid as far as I'm concerned. Of the close pitches down in the zone, how many were balls? Very few.
    The zone was WIDE. Even for Hirschbeck.

    My thesis: Hirschbeck's expanded his zone for both teams, if you will, and that facilitated the no-no. I concur with Ocab, a guy who has made his living for 20 years or so watching balls fly around home plate and is not known for complaining.

    Frankly, I don't appreciate comments like "Clearly you've never had to umpire a baseball game". What do you know? Why should it matter?

    We can discuss stuff, but get off the high horse.
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  6. #185
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    You are a reasonable guy oneupper. But what mechanisms do you believe went into place so that this no hitter could occur?

    For the record the Rolen AB was the only one I had issue with.

  7. #186
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Since you like these things here is John Hirshbecks' calls for this year from a nifty little tool Joe Lefkowitz's site (whoever that is).



    See any difference? I do. Inside strikes. None. Low strikes. Nope.
    Wide zone? No.

    OCabs point is valid as far as I'm concerned. Of the close pitches down in the zone, how many were balls? Very few.
    The zone was WIDE. Even for Hirschbeck.

    My thesis: Hirschbeck's expanded his zone for both teams, if you will, and that facilitated the no-no. I concur with Ocab, a guy who has made his living for 20 years or so watching balls fly around home plate and is not known for complaining.

    Frankly, I don't appreciate comments like "Clearly you've never had to umpire a baseball game". What do you know? Why should it matter?

    We can discuss stuff, but get off the high horse.
    There were 42 pitches called for strikes tonight. Only five were off the black or worse. That's 88 percent accuracy.

    There were only 4 pitches in the zone not called, with four more on the black. That was over 90 percent accuracy.

    Honestly, what more could you possibly expect from a zone? Cabrera isn't right. He's coming across like a whiner. Or worse, he's coming across like a Cardinal.

    I just honestly wonder if anyone has tried to umpire. It's a fair question. By nature, umpiring is an absolute thankless job. You don't get credit when you do well and get hammered when you don't. But to make matters worse, when an advance in technology gives us the ability to fairly critique someone, and it says they got over 90 percent of their calls correct, how could anyone intellectually criticize that?

    Name me a profession where 90 percent success isn't acceptable.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #187
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    You have to give credit when credit is due. Roy Halladay deserves credit for a job well done.

    This series aint over yet.

  9. #188
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Out of 42-43 strikes called, if I counted correctly, that's 1 bad call. That's a darn (expletive avoided) good job by the umpire, don't you think? Only a few of those pitches called were even outside the black. If we were scoring a test in school, that's called acing it.

    I'm amazed that over 80-90 percent of the calls can be correct, but people will look for the one or two that was wrong.
    Hirshbeck zone was the same all night for everyone, so I can't really complain. And I'll never blame getting no hit on an ump, the opposing pitcher is usually the dominant reason behind it.

    But I think getting only 80% of the calls behind home plate in any game, let alone a playoff game, is unacceptable. I know how hard it is, but these are supposed to be the best in the world, they should be able to get them nearly 100% right. ThIs is all they do, and literally billions of dollars ride on them doing their job right. College umps, minor league umps, I don't expect as much from, but these guys are in the bigs, and that should matter.

    Plenty of other jobs demand 90% accuracy. Accountants, secretaries, cameramen, plumbers, assembly line workers, pharmacists, it's a long list. All these people would get fired if they were only successful 90% of the time.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  10. #189
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    You have to give credit when credit is due. Roy Halladay deserves credit for a job well done.

    This series aint over yet.
    No softball for me on Friday....Reds baseball trumps

  11. #190
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Hirshbeck zone was the same all night for everyone, so I can't really complain. And I'll never blame getting no hit on an ump, the opposing pitcher is usually the dominant reason behind it.

    But I think getting only 80% of the calls behind home plate in any game, let alone a playoff game, is unacceptable. I know how hard it is, but these are supposed to be the best in the world, they should be able to get them nearly 100% right. ThIs is all they do, and literally billions of dollars ride on them doing their job right. College umps, minor league umps, I don't expect as much from, but these guys are in the bigs, and that should matter.

    Plenty of other jobs demand 90% accuracy. Accountants, secretaries, cameramen, plumbers, assembly line workers, pharmacists, it's a long list. All these people would get fired if they were only successful 90% of the time.
    But the professions you mention mostly follow processes and do tangible things. It's another story to make a judgment call and be expected to get them right well over 90% of the time.

    For as subjective as calling balls and strikes is, if you get 9 of every 10 called pitches correct, you're doing a fine job.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #191
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    As a baseball fan, I admire at what Halladay did to the Reds. The guy was nails. He could have gone 3-4 more innings at the rate he was going.

    As a Reds fan, I'm mad and embarassed. Mad that they lost and embarassed that the Reds get in the national spotlight and have this happen. All the hoopla about Phillies pitching being too good came true. Bah.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  13. #192
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    As a baseball fan, I admire at what Halladay did to the Reds. The guy was nails. He could have gone 3-4 more innings at the rate he was going.

    As a Reds fan, I'm mad and embarassed. Mad that they lost and embarassed that the Reds get in the national spotlight and have this happen. All the hoopla about Phillies pitching being too good came true. Bah.
    I don't really understand how you can be mad or embarrassed. When a pitcher goes out there and throws a no hitter you have to tip your cap. When a pitcher goes out there and dominates like no pitcher I have ever seen before you have to tip more than you cap.

    Look at the at bats that Votto had. Halladay was dealing so well that Joey couldn't even flick balls foul. When major league hitters are as fooled as they were last night it isn't because the hitters are bad. Its because the pitcher is just that on. I have never sat and watched a whole no hitter game. The Reds haven't been no hit since 71 (I wonder if the BRM was mad and embarrassed) and they haven't had a no hitter since Browning in the late 80's. IMO its a testament to Doc's stuff last night and the game was something to watch. After the 7th inning or so I was almost hoping the Reds would get no hit. Both from a historical perspective and also from a bounce back perspective.

  14. #193
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I don't really understand how you can be mad or embarrassed. When a pitcher goes out there and throws a no hitter you have to tip your cap. When a pitcher goes out there and dominates like no pitcher I have ever seen before you have to tip more than you cap.

    Look at the at bats that Votto had. Halladay was dealing so well that Joey couldn't even flick balls foul. When major league hitters are as fooled as they were last night it isn't because the hitters are bad. Its because the pitcher is just that on. I have never sat and watched a whole no hitter game. The Reds haven't been no hit since 71 (I wonder if the BRM was mad and embarrassed) and they haven't had a no hitter since Browning in the late 80's. IMO its a testament to Doc's stuff last night and the game was something to watch. After the 7th inning or so I was almost hoping the Reds would get no hit. Both from a historical perspective and also from a bounce back perspective.
    +1
    I started to get excited (as a baseball fan, not a Reds fan) after the 7th because I had never seen a no-hitter. I've only heard a few on the radio (including the 1971 Wise no-no where he also hit 2 HRs) or saw highlights after the fact.
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  15. #194
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    That game had an air of unreality about it. At the end, from my perspective, it was somehow less of a no-hitter for Halladay/Phils since it's the playoffs (only 1 win), but for the Reds it was more than 1 loss. Strange.

    Reds win Friday and the momentum swings. Pretty much do or die, I figure.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  16. #195
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Halladay throws 2nd postseason no-hitter in history to beat Reds in Game 1

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You are a reasonable guy oneupper. But what mechanisms do you believe went into place so that this no hitter could occur?

    For the record the Rolen AB was the only one I had issue with.
    From a players standpoint, if you know that Halladay is getting calls that nobody else is going to get, it changes your entire approach at the plate. Instead of laying off pitches that are balls (because you think Hirshbeck will call them a strike), you are chasing bad pitches all night to avoid the strikeout, thus putting the ball in play for Philly defenders.

    Perfect recipe for a no-no.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.


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