Listening to 700 this morning.....

[WMR]

I enjoy Dan Patrick and Scott Van Pelt. A local Indy guy I always liked and still listen to him online is Mark Patrick.

SVP is one of the very few that I actually like.

DP is okay, but he tends to meander a bit for my liking.

Probably the best sports talk radio I have found is the NFL programming on SiriusXM.

[Unassisted]

Even still, that has nothing to do with chemistry or a toxic clubhouse. Griffey and Dunn were two of the more well liked guys on the team. They also took care of the younger players.

I'll grant you that "toxic" is an oversimplification of the pundit perception. "Toxic" would be everyone walking on eggshells for fear of setting off a temper tantrum and we've never heard of anything like that. "Toxic to winning" is more like it.

"Languid" and "uninspired" are closer to the mark, but they may not be in the vocabulary of most radio guys.

[The Voice of IH]

I really can not agree more with those two. every where they go....they lose.

[CTA513]

Dunn and Griffey must have heard this and put some kind of spell on the Reds tonight.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I really can not agree more with those two. every where they go....they lose.

Really?

That's why you agree. Hilarious.

Seattle was solid with Griffey for several years. Dunn was on a pretty decent team with Arizona and he helped them.

So he goes to the worst team in baseball (Washington) and he's the reason they suck?

Great logic.

[dman]

I'm mixed on this whole issue. I'm not a stats expert like some of the others on this board, but isn't it ironic that as soon as both Junior and Dunn are gone that the very next season the Reds win the NL Central?

[KronoRed]

I'm mixed on this whole issue. I'm not a stats expert like some of the others on this board, but isn't it ironic that as soon as both Junior and Dunn are gone that the very next season the Reds win the NL Central?

Except they didn't, both left in 08.

The problem was pitching, anyone still blaming Dunn and JR for the lost decade simply has a big ax to grind with no logic or meaning.

[dman]

Except they didn't, both left in 08.

The problem was pitching, anyone still blaming Dunn and JR for the lost decade simply has a big ax to grind with no logic or meaning.

I thought Junior was traded mid-season 2009. I know that Dunn was traded in 2008.

Nope, you're correct. Mid-season 2008. My bad. I still stand by my original comment though, just off on my timeline.

[CTA513]

Dunn and Griffey must have heard this and put some kind of spell on the Reds tonight.

Looks like that spell lasted the whole series.

[REDblooded]

It seems rather convenient that the supposed toxicity level was lowered as the level of pitching was raised. Hmm.

The media loves scapegoats and whipping boys. I find it disingenuous to go back and blame two people for a whole decade of futility.

Correlation does not equal causation...

[REDblooded]

And yet multiple managers dismiss things such as chemistry leading to winning, but rather that winning leads to better clubhouse chemistry.... specifically Joe Torre (watch Baseball: The Tenth Inning) and Jim Leyland.

Which is interesting again, because our biggest division rival could easily have the argument that their season was ended due to a lack of clubhouse chemistry... Look at the TlR vs. Rasmus battles... Carp dressing down his own players... Etc... That team tanked in a hurry when all of those issues started happening at the same time.

[REDblooded]

Except they didn't, both left in 08.

The problem was pitching, anyone still blaming Dunn and JR for the lost decade simply has a big ax to grind with no logic or meaning.

The logic is more aimed at the approach those two took... They, but ability alone, should have been the team leaders... Only issue is, neither one of them showed much leadership... Griffey was always bitter, and was the type of guy that would languish out of position in CF because his pride got in the way... Dunn was the type of player that would rather watch a called strike 3 than swing in a clutch situation and 2 outs...

[Ron Madden]

The logic is more aimed at the approach those two took... They, but ability alone, should have been the team leaders... Only issue is, neither one of them showed much leadership... Griffey was always bitter, and was the type of guy that would languish out of position in CF because his pride got in the way... Dunn was the type of player that would rather watch a called strike 3 than swing in a clutch situation and 2 outs...

To keep from getting banished from RedsZone all I'm gonna say is I strongly disagree with this post.

[WVRedsFan]

The logic is more aimed at the approach those two took... They, but ability alone, should have been the team leaders... Only issue is, neither one of them showed much leadership... Griffey was always bitter, and was the type of guy that would languish out of position in CF because his pride got in the way... Dunn was the type of player that would rather watch a called strike 3 than swing in a clutch situation and 2 outs...

Wow. Just wow. I'm not even going to comment on this.