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Thread: Umpires in the Postseason

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Umpires in the Postseason

    What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. I go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Division Series Open Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. I go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.

    Can't do it. People think replay holds up the game. Of course managers arguing about a call does the same thing.
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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Division Series Open Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Can't do it. People think replay holds up the game. Of course managers arguing about a call does the same thing.
    Those same people thought automobiles were a passing fad too.

    Most calls could be reviewed and decided in less than a minute. Just have a replay official watching every call. Buzz down to the crew chief when there's a problem and tell him, bad call buddy, call overruled by replay.
    There would be some calls that take longer but I would say those calls would be argued by the manager for what the length of time it would take to review. Baseball moves at slow speed on everything so I doubt I will ever see this happen.
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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Division Series Open Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season I. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.
    I am not excusing the missed calls in the past few days but umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. It isn't even close in fact. I have a hard time watching videos of game of those eras because the positioning and technique used years ago was incredibly bad.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Division Series Open Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I am not excusing the missed calls in the past few days but umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. It isn't even close in fact. I have a hard time watching videos of game of those eras because the positioning and technique used years ago was incredibly bad.
    I don't doubt you a bit. They may be much better. It's just that the technology to see their mistakes are better. Which goes back to the main point I was making. You need to use the technology available to get the calls right. You just can't bury yourself in the sand and say they are human and going to make mistakes. It's true but saying that doesn't justify not using the means available for correction.
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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. I go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.
    I wonder if the umpiring is truly at its all time nadir or if there is just way more discussion due to technology both on (automating certain parts of the games) and off (using internet as a way to spread information) the field.

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    People talk about the human element being essential for the game, but lets not forget that the reason why humans were used to make these calls originally, was only because that was the best option at the time.

    I am positive that if they had replay in the 1860's, they would have used it to help make calls. I see no reason why a billion dollar game refuses to use the best technology available to make the game as fair as possible. Does anyone think that having games decided by blown calls makes it a better game?
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    People talk about the human element being essential for the game, but lets not forget that the reason why humans were used to make these calls originally, was only because that was the best option at the time.

    I am positive that if they had replay in the 1860's, they would have used it to help make calls. I see no reason why a billion dollar game refuses to use the best technology available to make the game as fair as possible. Does anyone think that having games decided by blown calls makes it a better game?
    I have no problem with replay being used as long as it doesn't get out of hand and is used 5-6 times a game. However this idea being bantered around about balls and strikes being called with a questec type system is not going to happen in our life times if ever.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I have no problem with replay being used as long as it doesn't get out of hand and is used 5-6 times a game. However this idea being bantered around about balls and strikes being called with a questec type system is not going to happen in our life times if ever.
    I agree that it can get out of hand if not handled correctly. Frankly, I get annoyed watching college football cause it seems like they review EVERYTHING. I like the NFL how it's based on coach's challenge.

    MLB could do a similar thing where a manager gets 2 challenges a game. If he gets a challenge right, he gets to keep it. I'm not sure why in the NFL you have to get both right to get another challenge, but that's another discussion.

    Tennis does it better than anyone in my opinion. The player challenges take up virtually no time and keeps the game moving and the calls correct. The LLWS challenges this year took an average of 45 seconds. That's less time spent on managers coming out and arguing close calls.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by sivman17 View Post
    I agree that it can get out of hand if not handled correctly. Frankly, I get annoyed watching college football cause it seems like they review EVERYTHING. I like the NFL how it's based on coach's challenge.

    MLB could do a similar thing where a manager gets 2 challenges a game. If he gets a challenge right, he gets to keep it. I'm not sure why in the NFL you have to get both right to get another challenge, but that's another discussion.

    Tennis does it better than anyone in my opinion. The player challenges take up virtually no time and keeps the game moving and the calls correct. The LLWS challenges this year took an average of 45 seconds. That's less time spent on managers coming out and arguing close calls.
    The Big 10 handles replay exclusively via an official in the booth who reviews every play on the monitor as it occurs. When he needs time to verify a call, he signals the refs on the field that a replay is necessary. If there is indisputable video evidence, the call is corrected. If not, that's that and play continues.

    In the Big 10, this averages less than once per game. Studies of MLB have shown a similar, or just slightly higher, frequency. I think this is the best middle ground. It's quick. It cannot be abused by either team, not come up against a situation where an error was made but the manager ran out of protests. And it also takes the decision to replay out of the hands of the umps, so their embarrassment, stubbornness, or even over-cautiousness doesn't come in to play.

    We debate this issue like we have to come up with the perfect system. We don't, let's just come up with one that's better than what we've got now. It will never be perfect, but it's silly to accept potentially game-altering mistakes that can be easily and quickly rectified, often much more quickly than the current manager-waddles-out-to-throw-a-tantrum-and-the-umpires-have-to-huddle model.

    Limit it to plays that can quickly and easily be confirmed (fair-foul, out-safe on the bases, HR-not a HR, catch or trap and you get 90% of the way there in a completely painless fashion. Again, if it's not clear, it stands as called. Let's not over-complicate this. Even make it "fun" by displaying the call on the scoreboard, which would also be used to announce that the play is under review. The only complication I can think of is what to do with the runners when an out is called on a ball that actually fell in. But that can't be too hard to figure out.

    In the long run, I still think there's a better solution for balls & strikes (I prefer piloting a simple, hand-held red/green indicator linked to Pitchf/x to be used by the umps as an assistance mechanism, if only to help them learn the zone in real time). And of course we need a clear rule on what constitutes a swing (I'd go with barrel of the bat over any part of the plate).

    Really, we're arguing at the margins at this point. Let's at least made the common sense adjustments, see how it works, and go from there.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    So we'll be seeing red beanbags flying out of the dugout?

    My overriding concern about integrating technology is disrupting the flow of the game. It has the potential to be Pandora's Box.

    Like many have mentioned, college football is ridiculous with the interruptions due to booth review when even I can see there is no dispute. Move on, please.

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    I don't know if there are more bad umps now than there used to be or not.

    Umpires are gonna miss some calls, what tics me off is when they blow a call without asking the other members of the crew for help.

    I'll never forget the blown call by Ken Burkhart on a play at home plate in the 1970 World Series.

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    .

    I'll never forget the blown call by Ken Burkhart on a play at home plate in the 1970 World Series.
    This play alone makes my case for why umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. If you look at the pic, Burkhart was right in the middle of the play. In todays game, you will not see an umpire today that close to a play. They will be a good ten feet away from the play at the plate in order to get a good view of the play and also not accidentally get involved in the play.
    Last edited by George Anderson; 10-08-2010 at 05:50 PM.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    This play alone makes my case for why umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. If you look at the pic, Burkhart was right in the middle of the play. In todays game, you will not see an umpire today that close to a play. They will be a good ten feet away from the play at the plate in order to get a good view of the play and also not accidentally get involved in the play.
    Yep, he got tangled up and actually had his back to the play.

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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Umpires in the Postseason

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    This play alone makes my case for why umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. If you look at the pic, Burkhart was right in the middle of the play. In todays game, you will not see an umpire today that close to a play. They will be a good ten feet away from the play at the plate in order to get a good view of the play and also not accidentally get involved in the play.
    George is absolutely correct. Today's umps do a darned fine job IMO. Sure, you'll always have the occasional missed call, but how often on those bang-bang plays are they spot on? Pretty much everytime.

    For those who disagree....check this out. Can you even imagine seeing something like this in TODAY'S game?

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