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View Poll Results: What should the Reds do in Left Field next season?

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  • Jonny Gomes in a similar role

    1 0.96%
  • Chris Heisey

    9 8.65%
  • Strict Platoon using existing players within organization

    3 2.88%
  • Acquire Legitimate high OBP leadoff hitter

    28 26.92%
  • Acquire Legitimate Cleanup hitter

    63 60.58%
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Thread: What do you want? Left Field

  1. #76
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I've read it's looking something like a 7 year/$126M deal for Crawford.
    Without looking at his stats, I'm going to say he is absolutely not worth that kind of money.

    A deal like that could kill a team if his wheels start to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  3. #77
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Without looking at his stats, I'm going to say he is absolutely not worth that kind of money.

    A deal like that could kill a team if his wheels start to go.
    I agree the deal would be assuming his legs stay the way they are over the course of the contract, which is no guarantee, but I heard Buster Olney say that you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy with as strong of a work ethic in the major leagues as Carl Crawford has. I actually think he is worth every penny of that contract for at least the first 5 years. Age 34-35 seasons may see some deterioration.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Sounds like the Alex Rios deal. A lot of love for a guy with a career .781 OPS.
    Carl Crawford is one of my favorite players, and Alex Rios is one of my least favorite players, so I have a hard time with this comparison. That career OPS is weighed down heavily by almost 900 PA's below the age of 22 in which he put up a wOBA of .288 and .305. His last 7 years wOBA:

    2004: .344
    2005: .353
    2006: .368
    2007: .365
    2008: .319
    2009: .367
    2010: .378

    Add in his insane defensive numbers in left field, and you have an extremely valuable player (Almost a 7 win player this year).

  4. #78
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    I wonder if Elijah Dukes is ready to behave and get to work? Could we now be that team who can find one bad guy a season and turn his fortunes around?
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 10-13-2010 at 09:28 PM.
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  5. #79
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    If the Reds signed Carl Crawford, I'd give up chocolate, jalapeno poppers, and diet coke.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #80
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I've decided that unless a screamer of a deal falls into Jocketty's lap this offseason, standing pat in LF this off-season is the way to go.
    I think there's a very good chance this happens. I'm afraid that's a way to to possibly find yourself find yourself in 3rd place come Aug. 1, fighting to keep yourself out of 4th.

    I hope I'm wrong and Rolen comes out playing like a 25-year old and keeps it up through the end of the world series. I hope Jonny Gomes can come back and play the whole season like he did before labor day this year. That's me hopin' though.

    If I'm Walt & BCast, I'm not just hopin'. They got there this year(a year ahead of schedule), that's great. I don't think they want to give up any ground and will make moves to build on that success (within reason).

    There's a lot of young talent at the major league level and on the way, but there' three spots that think can be improved where the farm system isn't ready to step up just yet.

    3. A middle infielder who can hit in the top two of the order with decent OBP abilities and solid D. It woulld be great to add a top young SS (Drew) who can hit leadoff, but I've got a feeling that Walt will be content to re-up Cabrerra or go with Cozart/Janish. My guess is the lineup is headed again bu some combination of Stubbs, Cabrerra, Phillips and Cozart. Making a deal for someone like Brigniac - a MI with a LH bat.

    2. A TOR starter. There's no doubt it should be the number one priority, but there several reason's that it will be delayed at least, as far as the offseaon goes

    -everyone thinks they have a shot to build and improve going into ST and aren't going to deal a TOR

    - the price in talent and the competition is much greater

    - I think the rotation, as is, can do a pretty fine job in the regular season.

    I think they'd be best served by starting the season with the current rotation. There are always top starters available come the deadline. Can I say who? No, but I wouldn't have said Cliff Lee would be one at this time either. Wait until the dealine, they wil cost less, take less talent to acquire and you'll have half a season to polish up some of your younger guys as trading chips. An incentive-laden deal for Brandon Webb is the only starter I possibly see them adding before ST.

    1. a LFer to hit fourth or fifth. This team cannot afford to stand pat here IMO. Barring a MAJOR shocker, Crawford and Werrth are not in the picture. I think there are several options that can upgrade the middle of the order. I just have a feeling that this is where Kocketty strikes. I will be hugely diappointed if they don't add a LH bat who is solid against rightys and plays decent D to platoon with Gomes.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 10-14-2010 at 02:49 AM.

  7. #81
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If the Reds signed Carl Crawford, I'd give up chocolate, jalapeno poppers, and diet coke.
    Crawford would make this team much better but the reality is, its not going to happen. I can dream and wish, but Crawford will be playing for Boston or LA next season.

  8. #82
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Fay did a piece on the LF situation yesterday. Everyone take a deep breath.

    The team will almost certainly exercise Gomes’ $1.8 million option. I think they can live with him as the main guy at the start of 2011 and hope that Chris Heisey or Todd Frazier develops enough to take over at some point in ’11 or ’12.
    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/201...ield-question/

  9. #83
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    I've learned 2 things about Jocketty in his tenure:
    1) He doesn't lie. When he does say something, it's true.
    2) He's loathe to reveal his hand because he likes to keep his options open and not let outside influences come in to play.

    I certainly hope Gomes isn't the plan for LF next year. Even if Jocketty doesn't bring in anybody else, Gomes isn't the best option. At least Nix and Heisey play plus defense.

    That said, until and unless Gomes is under contract, I wouldn't get too caught up in the speculation and supposition. Last year, Gomes was brought back only because Jocketty couldn't find anything better over the winter. Coming off a worse year and with clear, reasonable options in house, why would Jocketty lock himself in to Gomes right away? Is somebody else going to swoop in and give him more than $2M? If so, is that really a loss?

    If I had to guess, I would say that Jocketty does not pick his option. But I don't think that would indicate whether or not Gomes comes back. I guess I wouldn't be surprised either way.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #84
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I've learned 2 things about Jocketty in his tenure:
    1) He doesn't lie. When he does say something, it's true.2) He's loathe to reveal his hand because he likes to keep his options open and not let outside influences come in to play.

    I certainly hope Gomes isn't the plan for LF next year. Even if Jocketty doesn't bring in anybody else, Gomes isn't the best option. At least Nix and Heisey play plus defense.

    That said, until and unless Gomes is under contract, I wouldn't get too caught up in the speculation and supposition. Last year, Gomes was brought back only because Jocketty couldn't find anything better over the winter. Coming off a worse year and with clear, reasonable options in house, why would Jocketty lock himself in to Gomes right away? Is somebody else going to swoop in and give him more than $2M? If so, is that really a loss?

    If I had to guess, I would say that Jocketty does not pick his option. But I don't think that would indicate whether or not Gomes comes back. I guess I wouldn't be surprised either way.
    I think the approach is valid and agree for the most part, but I also think that you kind of contradicted yourself. Walt is on record as saying that they will probably be picking up his option.

    The thing I don't agree with is that Nix and Heisey are definitely better options. I think that there is a better chance of seeing someone come in from the outside than seeing one of these guys be handed the starting spot.

    I think I'd rather go into the season with Gomes as the starter and Heisey as your 4/5 OFer than Heisey as your starter and ? as your backup. Because that backup is going to makes Gomes look stupendous in comparison.
    Last edited by edabbs44; 10-15-2010 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #85
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I've learned 2 things about Jocketty in his tenure:
    1) He doesn't lie. When he does say something, it's true.
    2) He's loathe to reveal his hand because he likes to keep his options open and not let outside influences come in to play.

    I certainly hope Gomes isn't the plan for LF next year. Even if Jocketty doesn't bring in anybody else, Gomes isn't the best option. At least Nix and Heisey play plus defense.

    That said, until and unless Gomes is under contract, I wouldn't get too caught up in the speculation and supposition. Last year, Gomes was brought back only because Jocketty couldn't find anything better over the winter. Coming off a worse year and with clear, reasonable options in house, why would Jocketty lock himself in to Gomes right away? Is somebody else going to swoop in and give him more than $2M? If so, is that really a loss?

    If I had to guess, I would say that Jocketty does not pick his option. But I don't think that would indicate whether or not Gomes comes back. I guess I wouldn't be surprised either way.
    Better options in house? Heisey outright stunk down the stretch of the season. He was exposed and faded as the season progressed. Sure he can catch the ball but he had trouble hitting the ball this past season. Nix is a 5th OF type who has shown the propensity to get banged up. He is a nice player to have on the roster and a good PH option, but I don't want to see him get 50% of the starts out in LF.

    Gomes will be back next season. It makes too much sense to pick up that cheap option. Its all about building a roster with the best 25 men possible. Having Gomes bat off the bench makes a lot of sense to me. If it comes down to a 5th OF then I want Gomes over Nix.

    Alonso needs to be moved. He (or Joey which is doubtful) needs to be moved to LF or Alonso needs to be traded. The two positions that are of need right now are SS and LF. I fully believe that Walt will address the LF position this off season via trade. And I also believe Gomes option will be picked up and Nix will be signed to a minor league contract.

  12. #86
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Fay did a piece on the LF situation yesterday. Everyone take a deep breath.

    Quote:
    The team will almost certainly exercise Gomes’ $1.8 million option. I think they can live with him as the main guy at the start of 2011 and hope that Chris Heisey or Todd Frazier develops enough to take over at some point in ’11 or ’12.
    My guess is that the FO and ownership are far less timid when considering what changes are needed heading into 2010. From what I've read so far, Fay seems to think they'll just try a do-over in 2011. Maybe he's afraid of offending any players, I don't know, but it suggests to me Fay has no real forward-thinking perspective on the team, at least that he's willing to write.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #87
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    My guess is that the FO and ownership are far less timid when considering what changes are needed heading into 2010. From what I've read so far, Fay seems to think they'll just try a do-over in 2011. Maybe he's afraid of offending any players, I don't know, but it suggests to me Fay has no real forward-thinking perspective on the team, at least that he's willing to write.
    But Fay is reporting on what he thinks they will do, not what he thinks they should do.

  14. #88
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    When a writer talks about RBI's and runs scored for a player, do you think that writer actually thinks those are skills? Or are they just appealing to the casual fan?

    I'm asking this question in all seriousness. The disconnect between the way baseball is portrayed vs. actual value is absolutely mind boggling to me.

  15. #89
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    But Fay is reporting on what he thinks they will do, not what he thinks they should do.
    Yeah, I know. I think he's either misjudging their intention to be a really good team or he's not willing to write about them possibly wanting to replace guys currently on the roster (that kind of stuff might rankle those players, and Fay may not be willing to risk that). Who knows.

    Personally, I'd be stunned if Jocketty left it at "we like our team" and did nothing of real consequence to build on the progress they've made. They've got some real trade chips, starting with starting pitching, with which to improve the major league roster, IMO.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  16. #90
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want? Left Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    When a writer talks about RBI's and runs scored for a player, do you think that writer actually thinks those are skills? Or are they just appealing to the casual fan?

    I'm asking this question in all seriousness. The disconnect between the way baseball is portrayed vs. actual value is absolutely mind boggling to me.
    I think there are three reasons:

    1) Appeal to the casual fan
    2) Easy to understand
    3) Here's the controversial one...those stats aren't as useless as some claim. Sure they can be flawed in certain instances, but they aren't flawed in all instances.


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