What do you want? Left Field

[jojo]

The game threads...where objectivity goes to die.

Here are a few 1st half Gomes comments related to his defense that jive with what my assessment was at the time as well.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...&postcount=102

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...&postcount=387

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...&postcount=394

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...&postcount=395

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...&postcount=411

So I guess I wasn't alone in what I thought in the 1st half.

Like I said earlier, his defense deteriorated significantly down the stretch and he would be a major liability if that were to be his true defense. But he was nowhere near that bad in the 1st half.

Gomes had an OPS of 1.056 in May. It's not surprising that some were arguing his defense wasn't bad enough to out weight his bat at that level. Meanwhile his UZR and Dewans plus minus were already atrocious. Ignore the run value. He was the worst defender in left by just looking at plays.

He didn't get worse defensively as the season went along. UZR and Dewan's showed a guy who was very consistent in that regard. People mostly just got less tolerant of his defense as the season when along when his bat became a noodle and it was clear that shoulder/spreadsheet counterarguments held no water...

[jojo]

If you are a believer in UZR, Hawpe is a peer of Gomes in the field. I haven't paid too much attention to him as a Rockie so i don't know how accurate this is, but their production may need to mask Hawpe's "poor" glove as well.

Hawpe is a DH.

[Scrap Irony]

Hawpe's defensive numbers are from RF, primarily, and UZR grades out against position. If he switches to LF (and is able to play in a much smaller park for half his games with a plus-plus defender beside him), Hawpe should grade out as either average or slightly below average.

If he OPSes over 900 against righties, he's a 3.0 - 4.0 WAR player, defense included. Add in Gomes' value against LH and you're talking a near MVP platoon (at 5.0 - 6.5) at around $5 million per season.

[jojo]

Hawpe's defensive numbers are from RF, primarily, and UZR grades out against position. If he switches to LF (and is able to play in a much smaller park for half his games with a plus-plus defender beside him), Hawpe should grade out as either average or slightly below average.

If he OPSes over 900 against righties, he's a 3.0 - 4.0 WAR player, defense included. Add in Gomes' value against LH and you're talking a near MVP platoon (at 5.0 - 6.5) at around $5 million per season.

The difference between switching a guy between corner outfield positions historically has not been that great. In fact it's closer to the truth that one might expect a player to perform very similarly with the exception that a strong arm can make more of a difference in right.

Hawpe may get a discount for switching to GAPB but it's probably much more reasonable to expect his ceiling to be -15 rather than average. The guy is Gomes bad with the leather for much the same reasons-lousy range and an arm that isn't a threat.

Hawpe is best used as a DH.

[Scrap Irony]

The difference between switching a guy between corner outfield positions historically has not been that great. In fact it's closer to the truth that one might expect a player to perform very similarly with the exception that a strong arm can make more of a difference in right.

Hawpe may get a discount for switching to GAPB but it's probably much more reasonable to expect his ceiling to be -15 rather than average. The guy is Gomes bad with the leather for much the same reasons-lousy range and an arm that isn't a threat.

Hawpe is best used as a DH.

jojo, you'd favor a team with Heisey in LF rather than a team with a platoon of Hawpe and Gomes?

DH or not, if he can OPS 900+ against RH, he's an asset in LF. That's Dunnian production with a (slightly, if UZR is to be believed) better glove.

I'd take that in the middle of my order and in LF, especially for $5-7 million.

[edabbs44]

Gomes had an OPS of 1.056 in May. It's not surprising that some were arguing his defense wasn't bad enough to out weight his bat at that level. Meanwhile his UZR and Dewans plus minus were already atrocious. Ignore the run value. He was the worst defender in left by just looking at plays.

He didn't get worse defensively as the season went along. UZR and Dewan's showed a guy who was very consistent in that regard. People mostly just got less tolerant of his defense as the season when along when his bat became a noodle and it was clear that shoulder/spreadsheet counterarguments held no water...

Disagree. I understand that perception could be clouded, but I know what I saw. He hand a few questionable plays out there no doubt but they were much more frequent down the stretch.

[edabbs44]

The majority of 'discussion' is around Gomes. And yet of 89 votes.......not a single poster wants him as 'the guy'

Last offseason some of the more popular choices for "the guy" were Balentien and Dickerson with Gomes being a bench guy and Nix getting cut.

Just for perspective.

[Far East]

Last offseason some of the more popular choices for "the guy" were Balentien and Dickerson with Gomes being a bench guy and Nix getting cut.

Just for perspective.

Last offseason, I wanted Balentein and Nix in LF and Dickerson and Stubbs in CF -- I think that was before Gomes had signed. Didn't he sign relatively late?

[LoganBuck]

Disagree. I understand that perception could be clouded, but I know what I saw. He hand a few questionable plays out there no doubt but they were much more frequent down the stretch.

I can't agree with this at all. Gomes allowed hits to fall, and balls to get to the wall. His specialty was the ball down the line, that he would seemingly always try to cut off, and then allow it to trickle around in the corner, while stumbling to pick it up, and then making a bad throw back in.

In the Cardinal series with the brawl, I would argue that his defense cost the Reds nine runs.

A better fielder gets the ball that Roy Halladay hit in the playoffs.

Lets not even pretend that he was anywhere close to adequate out there.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jonny Gomes: defensive stud in April.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index...lb_1&mode=wrap

[RedsManRick]

Jonny Gomes: defensive stud in April.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index...lb_1&mode=wrap

C'mon, don't let real events get in the way of selective memory and a good narrative.

[Plus Plus]

First off, I don't think anybody is defending Gomes' defense to the extent where single game recaps and snarky replies would be necessitated. Gomes is not a defensive specialist by any stretch of the imagination; the argument seems to simply be whether or not he would be worth the 1.75m that he gets paid if his option is picked up. Frankly, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over the option being exercised because 1.75m is small enough that a spring training release wouldn't be crippling to the club's finances. Aaron Miles was released last spring with a salary significantly larger than 1.75m, and I don't think a single poster pointed to his stagnant salary of 2.7m as an amount of money that prevented the Reds from making any acquisitions. Gomes is also significantly more useful than Miles...

Another option that *could* be interesting is Andruw Jones. He was a 1.5 win player last year at a meager 500k salary. Is he worth looking at?

[OnBaseMachine]

First off, I don't think anybody is defending Gomes' defense to the extent where single game recaps and snarky replies would be necessitated. Gomes is not a defensive specialist by any stretch of the imagination; the argument seems to simply be whether or not he would be worth the 1.75m that he gets paid if his option is picked up. Frankly, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over the option being exercised because 1.75m is small enough that a spring training release wouldn't be crippling to the club's finances. Aaron Miles was released last spring with a salary significantly larger than 1.75m, and I don't think a single poster pointed to his stagnant salary of 2.7m as an amount of money that prevented the Reds from making any acquisitions. Gomes is also significantly more useful than Miles...

Another option that *could* be interesting is Andruw Jones. He was a 1.5 win player last year at a meager 500k salary. Is he worth looking at?

The issue with picking up Gomes' option is he'll more than likely play way more than he should, and that's a big problem. I think there are better options. Balentien, Heisey, and Nix are all better options from within, IMO, but my hope is they can acquire someone from outside the organization.

[Plus Plus]

The issue with picking up Gomes' option is he'll more than likely play way more than he should, and that's a big problem. I think there are better options. Balentien, Heisey, and Nix are all better options from within, IMO, but my hope is they can acquire someone from outside the organization.

Isn't that a managerial problem rather than a problem with the player, though?

As an aside, I would absolutely adore the acquisition of a "real" LF. I just wouldn't mind Gomes coming back in a more limited role.

[OnBaseMachine]

Isn't that a managerial problem rather than a problem with the player, though?

Some of it, yeah, but some blame goes on the GM too for not acquiring a better option.