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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

Voters
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  • Yonder Alonso

    64 64.65%
  • Junior Arias

    0 0%
  • Brad Boxberger

    0 0%
  • Jonathan Correa

    0 0%
  • Zack Cozart

    5 5.05%
  • Danny Dorn

    0 0%
  • Juan Duran

    0 0%
  • Juan Francisco

    2 2.02%
  • Todd Frazier

    0 0%
  • Yasmani Grandal

    0 0%
  • Ismael Guillon

    0 0%
  • Billy Hamilton

    22 22.22%
  • Jacob Johnson

    0 0%
  • Donnie Joseph

    0 0%
  • Ryan LaMarre

    0 0%
  • Yorman Rodriguez

    3 3.03%
  • David Sappelt

    2 2.02%
  • Neftali Soto

    0 0%
  • Ronald Torreyes

    0 0%
  • Chris Valaika

    1 1.01%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

  1. #16
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Cozart has a career .739 OPS in the minors. For a SS, that's not terrible, but relative to a guy that has better speed, a better throwing arm and top notch athletic ability so far and 5 years younger with thus far similar production (.726 OPS in over 500 PAs), it seems like the upside far wins out.

    This is no knock on Cozart. I think he's a "safe" player. But we're talking about, in theory, the fourth best prospect in the organization. Cozart can be a solid major league shortstop, IMHO. But Hamilton could wind up being a great major league shortstop.

    If Cozart's numbers were far superior, it could outweigh some of that upside. But while Cozart has displayed more home run power, their OPS has still been nearly identical.
    IMO just too soon to extract much from comparing their OPS. Alot of the reason Cozarts isn't higher has to do with contact ability, he's not gobbling up the singles. I think it's a mistake not to expect him to continue to progress and potentially be an above average hitter, plus defense and base stealing he's far more than just "safe". And while Hamilton could be an even better defender and base stealer in pretty short order he still could have issues with the bat in all aspects, contact, power and discipline. If so he's potentially a non prospect. In a year or 2 I might come to a point where I can see that bat is gonna not be a drag on the rest of his game but until that point I will pull back the reigns a bit on him.

    Cozart may be safe and Hamilton could be a star but IMO it's just to soon to call either of them those things and those things alone.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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  3. #17
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Don't know why you wouldn't make it a priority to get a guy with the AAA numbers Doug posted into your own lineup.
    Did you see the guy swing the bat in a Reds uni? I will remain optimistic on him but it's clear he isn't ready to hit major league pitching just yet. That swing is way too long and his great eye clearly isn't telling the rest of him what it needs to yet. Besides there is no where for him to fit into the lineup.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #18
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachunk View Post
    Yea but Hamilton may get a jump in obs due to lack of control by many pitchers in the lower levels, if the pitching was better he may not walk as much.
    The strike zones are also bigger at the lower levels. If you look at the walk rates for the lower minors, you'll see they are actually lower, typically, than the higher levels. In that context, not really relevant.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #19
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    IMO just too soon to extract much from comparing their OPS. Alot of the reason Cozarts isn't higher has to do with contact ability, he's not gobbling up the singles. I think it's a mistake not to expect him to continue to progress and potentially be an above average hitter, plus defense and base stealing he's far more than just "safe". And while Hamilton could be an even better defender and base stealer in pretty short order he still could have issues with the bat in all aspects, contact, power and discipline. If so he's potentially a non prospect. In a year or 2 I might come to a point where I can see that bat is gonna not be a drag on the rest of his game but until that point I will pull back the reigns a bit on him.

    Cozart may be safe and Hamilton could be a star but IMO it's just to soon to call either of them those things and those things alone.
    I didn't say I don't expect him to "continue to progress." If he were a finished product, I don't see him being an average hitter in the majors. I don't think he's good enough right now to do that. So naturally I expect him to continue to improve. I just don't think his ceiling is much higher than being a solid shortstop in the majors.

    In either event, I'm not saying Cozart can't get better nor am I saying Hamilton is a can't miss. But considering Cozart is known for his low floor, and he's not even doing much to exceed that right now, I'd much rather have the guy performing to the same production level with a whole lot more physical traits to follow.

    Bottom line: Cozart is someone that could be a good player. But no one disputes he doesn't have the physical tools of Hamilton. Since Cozart simply isn't doing much out of the ordinary right now, what makes him a better prospect than Hamilton? You mentioned his contact ability hurting his OPS. But isn't that part of it? That should be counted against him when evaluating prospects, not being granted as a justification.

    Right now, today, as of this moment, naturally it's not a debate. I'll take the 25-year old SS with a .739 OPS in AAA and 1,800 professional appearances.

    But in 3-5 years from now? Hard not to imagine the current 20-year old, with better skills, better talent, better tools, and having a .726 OPS in his first 500 appearances being a better shortstop.

    And since this is about who's the better prospect, though I know there's a fine line between balancing upside and chances of succeeding, I guess I just don't see where people are coming from labeling Cozart a better prospect. Maybe it's just a fair disagreement in the definition.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #20
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Did you see the guy swing the bat in a Reds uni? I will remain optimistic on him but it's clear he isn't ready to hit major league pitching just yet. That swing is way too long and his great eye clearly isn't telling the rest of him what it needs to yet. Besides there is no where for him to fit into the lineup.
    He had 29 PA. I'm not ready to install him in Cinti, but I'm also not in a sweat, like what seems to be most of RZ, to trade him--particularly until Votto is signed to a longer term deal.

  7. #21
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    You can't really make a judgment call on Yonder based on his pinch hitting at bats in the major league level. Some of those situations it seemed like he was trying to pull a Juan Francisco and hit it to the moon to impress.

  8. #22
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Sappelt, or maybe Frazier. (I hope). I see the Reds trying to hold down the payroll by filling big needs from within. Sappelt could play LF, and maybe be the lead-off hitter desperately needed. Or, Frazier just had a down year, after tantilizing the previous years with his bat. Bouncing him around looking for a position might have messed with his head a bit.

  9. #23
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    With the way this one is going, I see Hamilton getting my next vote... After that, Yasmani needs to be on the radar...
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