lack of leadership?

[faffy42]

I get a feeling watching the reds play that they lack cohesion and leadership. Baker seems disconnected to managing imo, so it starts at the top. But, most often I'm not sure who on the team is the emotional driving force (sometimes I think its BP, but who else?). It "appears" like a bunch of individuals competing, but not bonded emotionally as a team supporting and pushing each other. I think not having rolen and ludwick has kind of hurt the teams mental and emotional strength/identity during games. Any one else feeling the same?

[RedTeamGo!]

If the Reds had 4 more wins there would be a thread about how good the "chemistry" is. The Reds are slumping right now because the hitting has stunk recently.

[HokieRed]

Actually most of this "lack of leadership," lack of focus, rah-rah stuff seems to me to have little to do with major league baseball. I suggest two broad categories of things that account for the Reds' failure to live up to many of RZ's apparent expectations:
1. The rash of significant injuries: Cueto, Ludwick, Marshall, Broxton, Hanigan etc.
2. Basic overestimation of some of our talent, which has just not proven to be as good as many had thought/hoped: Frazier, Cozart, Heisey, the various LFers, Mesoraco (to date and for whatever reason), maybe even BP (relative to salary?)

[tomnuetten]

who is this leadership and can he score some runs?!

[Raisor]

Leadership? That's the problem? Ok.

[RedTeamGo!]

Leadership? That's the problem? Ok.

Well, Marty said yesterday that he cannot believe someone hasn't called a players only meeting, so it must be true!

I remember Barry Larkin had a team meeting in the early 2000s, the Reds won a couple games in a row and everyone was all excited about the team meeting. Then, somehow, even with the magical team meeting, the Reds missed the playoffs by a wide margin.

[redsmetz]

I think this could be an interesting thread. I'd hope it doesn't just become another thread that bashes Dusty, although, IMO, I think there can be a legitimate discussion on his managerial style and how that works out if there is a lack of player leadership.

This question came up with a fellow parishioner yesterday after a meeting at church. We were on our way out, so we didn't get into breaking open this question in any detail.

It is something I've wondered about. The team seems at time listless. The play certainly has been uneven. Personally I'm not looking at this as to who can bust heads, etc. (not big into athletic tantrums).

Here's my thoughts. Among the players now with some tenure, we have possible issues. I'm not sure Votto's style is such that it lends itself to taking the reigns here. I think Phillips has the passion, but I'm not sure he has the gravitas necessary. I think at times Jay Bruce might be the key player (and this is tricky, something hard to pinpoint), not sure where that players in the dynamic with the first two I've mentioned. Choo likely is just here for this year (discussed elsewhere) and I'm not sure where that leaves him. Clearly, as someone mentioned, Ludwick could have been one to take the lead. I do know that some of players we've thought of as young have a good number of years under their belts and certainly are in a position to assume some leadership.

I did suggest it's probably time for a players meeting, although I can't say that will wake them up or not (am I being wishy washy enough?). The two losses to the Cardinals were embarrassing obviously, but I have to remind myself that they count as just two losses. Clearly we have to make some headway. What we face are two clubs which are playing extremely good baseball. It's little solace that we're doing well against many other clubs.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't really buy into the leadership thing, but I do not think Brandon Phillips is a leader at all. He is all about his image and seems like a "me me me" type of guy. That does not bother me at all, as long as he plays well (he is not now at all), I do not really care what a player does off the field.

[faffy42]

I agree about Votto...his style is not very much vocal. He leads by doing. I mean I can't really know if there is a good team chemistry and these guys push and support each other, maybe they do...but it appears like they kind of just show up, do their job as individuals and go home. I don't get a feeling of a team that is emotionally bonded and pushing one another to win. Bruce has seemed to become more mature, and I agree could be a good leader on the team. Listless would be a good word to describe what I think I'm seeing from them. I just wish they had some solid leaders who "reassures" and unifies the team thru this adversity...I think Rolen was huge in that area...even just by his presence.

[klw]

They should bring in the Dancing Guy to teach Leadership to the team



Or maybe a good motivational speach:



or two



or a little Sly Stallone

Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! You're better than that!

[Raisor]

What lack of leadership allowed 15 runs yesterday?

Would a rah rah guy have kept it to 13?

[faffy42]

What lack of leadership allowed 15 runs yesterday?

Would a rah rah guy have kept it to 13?

I think your comments are fueled by the emotional sting of two hard losses to rival cards. I meant my thread to be about the teams lack of leadership imo in general from day one. The mental/emotional state of players within a team can be an important thing, doesn't always equate to wins...but nonetheless I think its a topic.

[joshua]

BP isn't a leader. A leader wouldn't go to the press and complain about the contract of the guy playing right next to him every day.

[westofyou]

If the team does have a leader it's not being broadcasted via the press, in prior years one heard mention of Cairo and Rolen (and yes I know Cairo is in the dugout) thus I believe that there is no "firm" vocal leader in the clubhouse at this time.

Is that a good thing?

Unsure myself

Is the time ripe for someone to voice concern within the clubhouse?

Probably is, but I'll never know for sure and I believe it couldn't hurt the Reds metaphysically to have someone do a Bluto speech at this juncture.

[Raisor]

I think your comments are fueled by the emotional sting of two hard losses to rival cards. I meant my thread to be about the teams lack of leadership imo in general from day one. The mental/emotional state of players within a team can be an important thing, doesn't always equate to wins...but nonetheless I think its a topic.

I'm on Prozac and have no emotions.

There are leaders on the team. As fans, we have zero idea what's going on in the dugout and clubhouse. For all we know they are having knife fights in the parking lot after the games.

Maybe even Thunderdome.

Or maybe they all get pizza and cuddle on Votto's couch.

Leaders lead in an infinite number if ways.