Turn Off Ads?

View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • Junior Arias

    1 0.93%
  • Brad Boxberger

    0 0%
  • Daniel Corcino

    0 0%
  • Jonathan Correa

    0 0%
  • Zack Cozart

    16 14.95%
  • Danny Dorn

    2 1.87%
  • Juan Duran

    0 0%
  • Juan Francisco

    6 5.61%
  • Todd Frazier

    8 7.48%
  • Yasmani Grandal

    5 4.67%
  • Ismael Guillon

    0 0%
  • Billy Hamilton

    65 60.75%
  • Jacob Johnson

    0 0%
  • Donnie Joseph

    0 0%
  • Ryan LaMarre

    0 0%
  • Kyle Lotzkar

    1 0.93%
  • David Sappelt

    0 0%
  • Neftali Soto

    0 0%
  • Ronald Torreyes

    1 0.93%
  • Chris Valaika

    2 1.87%
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 67

Thread: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Prospect #1 - Aroldis Chapman, LHP
    Prospect #2 - Devin Mesoraco, C
    Prospect #3 - Yorman Rodriguez, CF
    Prospect #4 - Yonder Alonso, 1B
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    -The Insider-
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,869

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Here is where it starts to get hard for me.

  4. #3
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,327

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Billy Hamilton. Not too close IMO. Switch hitter who showed skills from both sides of the plate. Plus plus speed. Plus plus defense. The main concern is a lack of power at this point. I will take that concern for a middle infielder with the rest of his game and not think twice about it.

  5. #4
    Member medford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    2,083

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    I took Cozart, though I suspect that Hamilton will win. Cozart's apparent readiness wins out over Hamilton in my mind. Hamilton may have the higher upside, but Cozart is more of a sure thing to contribute in the majors to some degree, while Hamilton still have several levels where he could ultimately flame out. I've liked Cozart ever since I first saw him play for the dragons where the seemed to have a better idea of what to do at teh plate than the scouting reports indicated at the time, and ever since, he's done nothing to make me think my first hand view of him at that time was wrong.

    Another thing that gives me pause, for all the Hamilton as the future at SS talk, he still played more than 4x the games at 2b this year as he did at SS this season. Yeah, I know he's got the athletic ability, and perhaps the billings SS was older and ready to move along quicker and the Reds figured they had time to figure out if Billy could handle it at SS for sure or not, but to me, if you're the SS of the future, I'd like to think there is no question which spot you're taking in the field every day. If you're not occuping short, then a red flag should pop up that the organizations may have questions if he can handle short full time in the majors.
    Last edited by medford; 10-18-2010 at 04:59 PM.

  6. #5
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,418

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    I still am not convinced Cozart's ceiling is high enough to make him a top prospect. His ceiling is essentially Juan Uribe, with a floor a notch below Cliff Pennington. I'll take the player with tremendous upside...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,700

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Still have to go with Cozart in a tough, close call over Hamilton. Cozart has been described as a "safe" pick, but I think that's an underestimation of his game. For a few years now, he has been often described as the best defensive SS in the system, with some preferring Miguel Rojas. Janish has been included in that company. Add to that his 17 HR and 30 SB in AAA this year, and it's a pretty potent package.

    I don't see where to find this, but if somebody could, I'd be interested to know where those 17 HR and 30 SB ranked this year among all minor-league shortstops.

    With all that, I have to agree that Hamilton's sensational speed gives him a somewhat higher upside. But at this point, his chance of attaining that upside seems less likely (to me) than Cozart's chance of becoming an above-average major-league shortstop.

    That said, I have absolutely no problem with the choice of Hamilton. He's tremendously compelling.
    Last edited by mace; 10-18-2010 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,590

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I still am not convinced Cozart's ceiling is high enough to make him a top prospect. His ceiling is essentially Juan Uribe, with a floor a notch below Cliff Pennington. I'll take the player with tremendous upside...
    And what is this kid Hamilton's upside? Honus Wagner? Derek Jeter?

    I'm glad Hamilton is in the Reds' organization, he seems like a good prospect. But there's a tendency to take raw, athletic guys and assume they have tremendous upsides.

    Hamilton is apparently not clearly a shortstop. He could wind up at second base. And so far he hasn't displayed power.

    Cozart is clearly a shortstop, and he hit 17 homers this year. I wish his OBP was a bit higher, and I wouldn't rank him as high as fifth, but the Cozart fans certainly have a good argument.

    I remember years ago when Janish didn't even make the RedsZone list. Lacked upside I guess.

  9. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,327

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    And what is this kid Hamilton's upside? Honus Wagner? Derek Jeter?

    I'm glad Hamilton is in the Reds' organization, he seems like a good prospect. But there's a tendency to take raw, athletic guys and assume they have tremendous upsides.

    Hamilton is apparently not clearly a shortstop. He could wind up at second base. And so far he hasn't displayed power.

    Cozart is clearly a shortstop, and he hit 17 homers this year. I wish his OBP was a bit higher, and I wouldn't rank him as high as fifth, but the Cozart fans certainly have a good argument.

    I remember years ago when Janish didn't even make the RedsZone list. Lacked upside I guess.
    I can't tell you why the Reds aren't playing Hamilton at SS, but it surely isn't because he can't handle it. The guy is a wizard in the field.

  10. #9
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,418

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    I don't see where to find this, but if somebody could, I'd be interested to know where those 17 HR and 30 SB ranked this year among all minor-league shortstops.
    He also struckout 107 times and has a career .262 BA in the minors. Unless he can flash legit enough power in the majors to keep his isoP and isoD up, his OPS will toil in the .600s.

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    With all that, I have to agree that Hamilton's sensational speed gives him a somewhat higher upside. But at this point, his chance of attaining that upside seems less likely (to me) than Cozart's chance of becoming an above-average major-league shortstop.
    The league-average shortstop in the NL hit .266/.325/.388 in 2010. He's gonna have to hit that to be above average. I just don't see how his offensive game inspires so much confidence here. Hamilton is nearly guaranteed to provide the same defensive/speed offering and he has a lot more upside...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,700

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I can't tell you why the Reds aren't playing Hamilton at SS, but it surely isn't because he can't handle it. The guy is a wizard in the field.
    Doug, I'm not challenging your statement there. I'd just like a little elaboration. We've seen the highlights and know that he can make the sensational play. But are his hands, arm and fundamentals good enough to make him a Gold Glove-caliber shortstop? Does he project to be that efficient and reliable?

  12. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    263

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Cozart's obp and strikeouts scare me a little bit, I will take Hamilton with #5 spot.

  13. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,590

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    He also struckout 107 times and has a career .262 BA in the minors. Unless he can flash legit enough power in the majors to keep his isoP and isoD up, his OPS will toil in the .600s.



    The league-average shortstop in the NL hit .266/.325/.388 in 2010. He's gonna have to hit that to be above average. I just don't see how his offensive game inspires so much confidence here. Hamilton is nearly guaranteed to provide the same defensive/speed offering and he has a lot more upside...

    First off, nothing is guaranteed with a player at the Pioneer League level. Nothing.

    Second, guys with power do tend to strike out more. It's easier to avoid strikeouts when you are a 2 homer player than a 17 homer player.

    Again, I wouldn't rank Cozart this high either. And it's fun to hope great athletes become great ballplayers.

    But let's give some credit for achievement at the high minors levels. We'll see how the Pioneer League people do when they get there.

  14. #13
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,418

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    And what is this kid Hamilton's upside? Honus Wagner? Derek Jeter?
    Jose Reyes
    Jimmy Rollins

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I'm glad Hamilton is in the Reds' organization, he seems like a good prospect. But there's a tendency to take raw, athletic guys and assume they have tremendous upsides.
    I thought I was a numbers guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Hamilton is apparently not clearly a shortstop. He could wind up at second base. And so far he hasn't displayed power.
    What Doug said about defense. Power? Check those guys I listed above and their minor league stats. It's far too early to come to any conclusions about the kid's power (I can call him a kid! I'm finally older than the prospects! I've always wanted to type that! Yippee!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Cozart is clearly a shortstop, and he hit 17 homers this year. I wish his OBP was a bit higher, and I wouldn't rank him as high as fifth, but the Cozart fans certainly have a good argument.
    ...And he slugged .416 because his BA is too low (BaseClogger is backing BA everybody!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I remember years ago when Janish didn't even make the RedsZone list. Lacked upside I guess.
    I've always been a big Janish supporter and my posting history supports that...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  15. #14
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,327

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    Doug, I'm not challenging your statement there. I'd just like a little elaboration. We've seen the highlights and know that he can make the sensational play. But are his hands, arm and fundamentals good enough to make him a Gold Glove-caliber shortstop? Does he project to be that efficient and reliable?
    Hamilton is incredibly sure handed and his arm is quite strong.

  16. #15
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,327

    Re: Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by AWA85 View Post
    Cozart's obp and strikeouts scare me a little bit, I will take Hamilton with #5 spot.
    107 strikeouts in 610 plate appearances scares you?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25