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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

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  • Junior Arias

    1 1.06%
  • Brad Boxberger

    0 0%
  • Daniel Corcino

    0 0%
  • Jonathan Correa

    0 0%
  • Zack Cozart

    20 21.28%
  • Danny Dorn

    1 1.06%
  • Juan Duran

    2 2.13%
  • Juan Francisco

    20 21.28%
  • Todd Frazier

    10 10.64%
  • Yasmani Grandal

    33 35.11%
  • Ismael Guillon

    1 1.06%
  • Jacob Johnson

    0 0%
  • Donnie Joseph

    1 1.06%
  • Ryan LaMarre

    0 0%
  • Kyle Lotzkar

    1 1.06%
  • Felix Perez

    0 0%
  • David Sappelt

    2 2.13%
  • Neftali Soto

    0 0%
  • Ronald Torreyes

    1 1.06%
  • Chris Valaika

    1 1.06%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

  1. #46
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    [QUOTE=Edd Roush;2290924]Haha, limited is an understatement. You are trying to draw conclusions from an 84 PA sample size. QUOTE]

    No, the original poster was drawing the conclusions. He said major league pitchers toy with him. The numbers suggest otherwise. Just pointing that out.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    There are questions about his bat.
    There's really not. His bat will stick.

  4. #48
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    There's really not. His bat will stick.
    There actually are some questions about it.

  5. #49
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    There actually are some questions about it.
    He'll be fine once he locks in on identifying the offspeed stuff.

  6. #50
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    He'll be fine once he locks in on identifying the offspeed stuff.
    That's a pretty big 'if', isn't it?

  7. #51
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    That's a pretty big 'if', isn't it?
    I don't think so. He's what, 21? I fully expect his bat to be fine.

  8. #52
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I don't think so. He's what, 21? I fully expect his bat to be fine.
    He's 23. I think he's a left-handed hitting version of Wily Mo Pena who plays a more premium position (albeit not very well).

  9. #53
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    He's 23. I think he's a left-handed hitting version of Wily Mo Pena who plays a more premium position (albeit not very well).
    We are talking about Grandal.

  10. #54
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    He's 23. I think he's a left-handed hitting version of Wily Mo Pena who plays a more premium position (albeit not very well).
    I'm a little confused. The post he quoted was referencing Grandal originally. It seems some are talking about Francisco, but the first quote from Mario-Rijo was talking about Grandal.

    In any event... Francisco's peripherals put him in the class of hitters such as:

    Adam Jones, Kevin Kouzmanoff, Ian Desmond, Alex Gonzalez, Adam Lind, Austin Jackson, Adam LaRoche and Jose Guillen.

    The problem for Francisco is that most of those guys are striking out around or less than 20-21% of the time and are considered solid, if not above-average defensive players.

    Francisco currently has a 32% K rate in the majors, 23% in the minors, and is without a defensive position. He may need to improve his walks, strikeouts or both to be any kind of productive player that will justify a spot in the field.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #55
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    This is starting to get tough, but it somewhat shows the space between our top 5 and now it gets a little "muddy".

    I went with Frazier just because I think he can turn out to be the best of the bunch. Wish we had more to go off of on Grandal but think he could be a pleasant surprise. Cozart also would fit fine with this group of guys, but like some others I am not a fan of Juan and his negative aspects at all.

  12. #56
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    I went with Frazier as a combo of pedigree and performance. I have very little faith in Juan Fransisco's ability to hit major league pitching and while I really like Cozart, a .310 OBP in AAA makes highly suspicious. Convince me he's noticeably better than Paul Janish.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #57
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    At least we finally have a battle, after a handful of blowouts to start this off. I went with Frazier. Even though he had a bad start to the season, I still feel he has the best chance of a Major League career. Part of that is admittedly an unfamiliarity with Grandal. After all, he only has eight games in the Reds system, I simply need to see more out of him. As far as the other contenders, I get the feeling Cozart may wind up being another Janish, and Francisco strikes me as Wily Mo Pena Lite, so I have trouble voting for them this high. But I can at least see the arguments for them. My big question is when does David Sappelt start getting more respect in the voting, because he looks like someone who could be on the fast track to Cincinnati.

  14. #58
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    I'm not looking for a protracted statistical battle, but the comparisons of Francisco to Wily Mo have become so frequent that I think it warrants a comment. I can see the ease of the obvious comparison, as young, free-swinging home run hitters. But I really don't think it holds up beyond the superficial similarities.

    I know that it's fashionable to pooh-pooh RBIs, but I don't happen to subscribe to that. I think there IS a profile of a good RBI guy, and basically it boils down to total bases. Francisco seems to have that gift, and always has. As a minor-leaguer, Pena had one remarkable season in Dayton, but beyond that didn't show near the consistency that Francisco has. Francisco has improved his slugging percentage every single year in the minor leagues, as he has moved up. Pena didn't do that. Francisco has batted about 20 points higher than Pena in the minor leagues. Francisco doesn't strike out as much as Pena did. And finally, for all the questions about his glove, Francisco still has more defensive value than Wily Mo.

    He's just a better player all-around, it seems to me.

  15. #59
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    He's just a better player all-around, it seems to me.
    Even if somebody wants to compare the two -

    JF has a distinct advantage as a power hitter from the left side. Most pitching is right handed and JF will have the advantage most at bats.

    For the type of hitter he is, JF's left handed bat gives him a big advantage over the WMP types.

  16. #60
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #6 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    I'm not looking for a protracted statistical battle, but the comparisons of Francisco to Wily Mo have become so frequent that I think it warrants a comment. I can see the ease of the obvious comparison, as young, free-swinging home run hitters. But I really don't think it holds up beyond the superficial similarities.

    I know that it's fashionable to pooh-pooh RBIs, but I don't happen to subscribe to that. I think there IS a profile of a good RBI guy, and basically it boils down to total bases. Francisco seems to have that gift, and always has. As a minor-leaguer, Pena had one remarkable season in Dayton, but beyond that didn't show near the consistency that Francisco has. Francisco has improved his slugging percentage every single year in the minor leagues, as he has moved up. Pena didn't do that. Francisco has batted about 20 points higher than Pena in the minor leagues. Francisco doesn't strike out as much as Pena did. And finally, for all the questions about his glove, Francisco still has more defensive value than Wily Mo.

    He's just a better player all-around, it seems to me.
    I could probably find a lot of statistical reasons why the comparison is valid, but you said you'd rather avoid that, so I'll just counter with the subjective portion.

    I'm not sure it's prudent to argue anyone that doesn't even have a true position defensively has more defensive value. Heck, Francisco has had just 20 chances in his MLB defensive career and made 2 errors already. That's a huge old sample size issue, but it does nothing to inspire any sort of confidence.

    He plays a more premium defensive position than did Pena, but if he's not any good at it, it actually makes him less valuable because the position would give up more runs with a bad defender than the OF positions would do.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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