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Thread: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

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    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    I know there's multiple threads that have been dedicated to the Reds playoff performance but I feel that they are all laced with knee jerk comments and emotional filled post.I haven't seen things talked about lately so I thought I'd bring it back up.We did make the playoff this year so lets try not to forget it.

    My biggest point I like to make is that while it's easy to say that the Reds were uncompetitive I feel like if you could hand pick 3 things that happened and have them go the other way then the Reds could've won the series.I'm not saying that if Votto or Rolen hits a HR in this spot or if the Reds pitchers pitched shut outs(although that's what it would've taken in games 1 and 2), I'm just talking about simple plays and maybe a few could've been nice play that possibly would've turned things in the Reds favor.

    I think the pitching showed up in all the games and that we scored enough runs in game two, that if the Reds catch a break and make a play or two this series could've had a different outcome.

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    Member 11larkin11's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Victorino's catch on Phillips in Game 3.

    Bruce's error in Game 2.

    Wood's hit not falling in Game 1.

    The Game 1 and 3 incidents, I feel, were early and may not have had a huge impact as far as runs, but would have changed the momentum/feel of the game.
    Domo Arigato, Here Comes Joey Votto

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    Manliness Personified HumnHilghtFreel's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Honestly. None of everything that went wrong in the playoffs bothers me at this point. Because looking back at my feelings prior to the season. I did not in the least expect to even experience playoff baseball. Sure it sucks to get swept, but we got there way before I thought we would. Getting that next postseason win is for next year. Right now, I'm just thrilled with the progress.

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    Off the schneid TStuck's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by HumnHilghtFreel View Post
    Honestly. None of everything that went wrong in the playoffs bothers me at this point. Because looking back at my feelings prior to the season. I did not in the least expect to even experience playoff baseball. Sure it sucks to get swept, but we got there way before I thought we would. Getting that next postseason win is for next year. Right now, I'm just thrilled with the progress.
    A big ditto for me. As a fan, you always want to win it all, but my goodness I was ecstatic over this teams growth and progress this season. We have a priarily young team, good depth developing in the farm system, a surplus of starting pitching.......there is no way I'm disappointed. I'm doubly anxious and ready for the 2011 season. Gonna seem like a REALLY long wait this winter!
    Better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be proven one.

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    The Reds got lucky due to the division being weak but they need not apologize. They've been burned before because the division was strong, like in 1999. IMO, if not for the horrible divsion, they would have won 80-85 games, just about what we thought in April. They still have ways to go to be on a par with the other NL playoff teams

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The Reds got lucky due to the division being weak but they need not apologize. They've been burned before because the division was strong, like in 1999. IMO, if not for the horrible divsion, they would have won 80-85 games, just about what we thought in April. They still have ways to go to be on a par with the other NL playoff teams
    Doesn't matter for me. This team will improve and the division will not matter over the next year or two. This worked well as it gave the kids a taste of October.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    It still grinds my gears, if I'm being perfectly honest.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The Reds got lucky due to the division being weak but they need not apologize. They've been burned before because the division was strong, like in 1999. IMO, if not for the horrible divsion, they would have won 80-85 games, just about what we thought in April. They still have ways to go to be on a par with the other NL playoff teams

    The AL west is the weakest division in all of baseball and I don't see the Rangers apologizing for being in the WS. No way they make the playoffs in the AL East or Central. Divisional strength means little. The NL Central will be weak again next season less the Brewers get some kinda pitching. St Loius is near payroll max and will be going into 2011 with:

    Wainwright - who was injured at seasons end
    Carpenter - who'll be 36
    Garcia - a complete unknown of what his future holds
    Loshe - gas can - fire - fire - gas can
    Westbrook - who could improve his numbers with more time under Duncan

    1B Albert - Numbers have declined 3 straight years and looking for a big raise
    2B Schumaker - .666 OPS
    3B Freeze - .404 SLG% - 20+ E defense
    SS Ryan - .573 OPS - 125 starts - Janish is a sizable upgrade over him
    LF Holiday - .922 OPS - Only 3 E's in 155 Starts - Still in prime years
    CF Rasmus - Showed huge improvement at plate and good defender in CF, that being said he might be traded to fill other holes cheaply.
    RF Jay - Ended up with a .771 OPS (.661 in August after Ludwick trade and .576 in Sept/Oct)
    C Molina - GG Defense - .671 OPS


    Cubs are at a start of a rebuild, same for Houston. Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh. With continued development of the Young pitching, Bruce, Stubbs and acquiring a quality LF the Reds could win 100 next year in this division.
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

    Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels...

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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Doesn't matter for me. This team will improve and the division will not matter over the next year or two. This worked well as it gave the kids a taste of October.
    ....Couldn't the same thing have been said about the brewers a couple of years ago? I think you take your chance when it's here.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    ....Couldn't the same thing have been said about the brewers a couple of years ago? I think you take your chance when it's here.
    Sure, but they also could have said the same thing about Tampa 3 years ago.

  12. #11
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    ....Couldn't the same thing have been said about the brewers a couple of years ago? I think you take your chance when it's here.
    The Reds aren't losing the biggest reason why they made the playoffs. Plus they currently are a much deeper organization than the Brewers were in 2008.

    All I want us a team that can contend year after year. Winning it all involves way too much luck (like that rag-tag team in 1990) to be obsessed with it. Give me games that matter in September every year, and I'm a happy fan.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    The Reds aren't losing the biggest reason why they made the playoffs. Plus they currently are a much deeper organization than the Brewers were in 2008.

    All I want us a team that can contend year after year. Winning it all involves way too much luck (like that rag-tag team in 1990) to be obsessed with it. Give me games that matter in September every year, and I'm a happy fan.
    I agree if this were realistic. I just think under the current economic structure, there won't be a team that will be in the hunt every year in a place like Cincy. So if contention is going to be a sporadic thing, then I'd rather the team attempt to maximize its opportunities when they do come.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I agree if this were realistic. I just think under the current economic structure, there won't be a team that will be in the hunt every year in a place like Cincy. So if contention is going to be a sporadic thing, then I'd rather the team attempt to maximize its opportunities when they do come.
    Rockies, Marlins, Cardinals, Twins, Rays.

    Two have won a World Series in the last 10 years, and two more have been in it, while the Twins might be the best organization of them all.

    The Reds are currently following the same plan as these teams. Might not happen, but I don't see why it can't.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Rockies, Marlins, Cardinals, Twins, Rays.

    Two have won a World Series in the last 10 years, and two more have been in it, while the Twins might be the best organization of them all.

    The Reds are currently following the same plan as these teams. Might not happen, but I don't see why it can't.
    But only the Twins are really in it every year over a long period. The Rays have had a nice three year run after years of futility and drafting at the top of the draft. Now it looks like a large part of the success there will be moving on.

    From 2001 to 2010, the Rockies have had three seasons with more than 80 wins. (And only three others from 1993 to 2000.)

    The Marlins are the exact opposite of what you are advocating. Win it all now and then with years of being an also ran in between.

    The Cardinals are simply in a different peer group. St. Louis is baseball mad. More than Cincy. Its not the 70s anymore and they really have a different model. The farm hasn't produced much outside of Pujols. Big acquisitions like Rolen, Edmonds, Holliday, and McGwire account for a lot of that success. Reclamation pitchers (with Chris Carpenter as the poster boy) and big dollar aging vets like Reggie Sanders, Eric Davis and Larry Walker are a lot of that plan. Its not a model the Reds could sustain.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  16. #15
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Now that we've had a chance to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    But only the Twins are really in it every year over a long period. The Rays have had a nice three year run after years of futility and drafting at the top of the draft. Now it looks like a large part of the success there will be moving on.

    From 2001 to 2010, the Rockies have had three seasons with more than 80 wins. (And only three others from 1993 to 2000.)

    The Marlins are the exact opposite of what you are advocating. Win it all now and then with years of being an also ran in between.

    The Cardinals are simply in a different peer group. St. Louis is baseball mad. More than Cincy. Its not the 70s anymore and they really have a different model. The farm hasn't produced much outside of Pujols. Big acquisitions like Rolen, Edmonds, Holliday, and McGwire account for a lot of that success. Reclamation pitchers (with Chris Carpenter as the poster boy) and big dollar aging vets like Reggie Sanders, Eric Davis and Larry Walker are a lot of that plan. Its not a model the Reds could sustain.
    The Rockies and Rays just started their new philosophy, so I guess we'll see over the next few years how it plays out, but it's worked well the last three years.

    The Marlins have been in contention in half of the last ten years, all with an average payroll under $30M a year.

    The Reds are approaching the same payroll as the Cardinals, and have the guy in charge who built that model.

    And for clarification, being in contention just means that going into spring training each year, if the team stays healthy, they'll likely to be playing meaningful games all season long. I think the Reds are set up for that for the next few years at least.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein


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