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Thread: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

  1. #1
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Including Bowden

    1. OBrien (Bruce, Bailey)
    2. Walt (Leake)
    3. Bowden (Votto, Dunn)
    3. Krivsky (Frazier, Alonso)

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    First of all, the GMs don't make the draft picks. Second of all, the drafting during Bowden's tenure is as bad as the drafting during any GM's tenure ever. Third of all, it's nearly impossible to judge the drafting of Krivsky and Jocketty because there hasn't been enough time to evaluate. I could keep going . . .

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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    First of all, the GMs don't make the draft picks. Second of all, the drafting during Bowden's tenure is as bad as the drafting during any GM's tenure ever. Third of all, it's nearly impossible to judge the drafting of Krivsky and Jocketty because there hasn't been enough time to evaluate. I could keep going . . .
    1st I dont know all the scouting directors since then so eeeeeeeeexxxxxxxcuse me for trying to start a thread

    2nd instead of slamming my topic how about (a) give us your rankings (b) just plain ignore the thread like any other decent poster would, my lord is it that hard

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Fine.
    1.) Krivsky
    1.) Jocketty
    1.) O'Brien
    1.) Bowden

    It's a four-way tie since the GMs don't do the drafting.

  6. #5
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Fine.
    1.) Krivsky
    1.) Jocketty
    1.) O'Brien
    1.) Bowden

    It's a four-way tie since the GMs don't do the drafting.
    OK Mr Hissy fit, tell me who the scouting directors are and I'll start a new thread OK, good god

  7. #6
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    1st I dont know all the scouting directors since then so eeeeeeeeexxxxxxxcuse me for trying to start a thread

    2nd instead of slamming my topic how about (a) give us your rankings (b) just plain ignore the thread like any other decent poster would, my lord is it that hard
    Except you are asking a question that really doesn't matter because as noted, the GM's don't really draft guys. Most of them just approve the budget and and let the scouting director make the decisions based on what his scouts tell him.

    I don't think he slammed your topic, but just added information to it that suggests the topic should go in a different direction.

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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Except you are asking a question that really doesn't matter because as noted, the GM's don't really draft guys. Most of them just approve the budget and and let the scouting director make the decisions based on what his scouts tell him.

    I don't think he slammed your topic, but just added information to it that suggests the topic should go in a different direction.
    basically since Im not as knowledgeable as some of the experts here, I chose GM eras instead of scouting directors, when I go to baseball reference.com, they dont list scouting directors they list GMs and really doug it's just a thread to talk about things while the seasons over, am I allowed to do that or should I never post, are we that sensitive when it comes to talking about the Reds, Im having a hard time understanding why this topic is so hard to understand, I guess, maybe the mods should lock it

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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    One factual correction. Walt, not Krivsky, drafted Alonso.

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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    One vast improvement from the Bowden era is that in each of the last 6 drafts, two by DO, two by WK, two by WJ, we got a major league player in the first round (I have no problem assuming Mesoraco here will be one as well as the five others, Bailey, Bruce, Stubbs, Leake, Alonso). That is, IMHO, critical.

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    I could see how what I said was interpreted as a 'slam'. I'm sorry I came off that way. Unfortunately, I don't know a much better way to word my thoughts than, "This is a bad idea for a thread." To be fair, at least I gave logical reasons for my opinion. I hope this thread turns out to be a success, but with the way it's set up, I don't see how that's possible.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you clearly liked O'Brien, and you clearly didn't like Krivsky. But let's pretend for a moment that the GMs have more involvement than they do with the draft.

    Jim Bowden was part of 11 different drafts while GM of the Reds. Of the players who signed, 44 of them played in MLB. Three of them played after Jim Bowden released them. Of the ones remaining, only 15 of them put a career WAR of 1.0 or better:
    Scott Sullivan
    Aaron Boone
    Brett Tomko
    Jason LaRue
    Ray King
    Lance Davis
    Scott Williamson
    Austin Kearns
    Adam Dunn
    B.J. Ryan
    Todd Coffey
    Ben Broussard
    Joey Votto
    Chris Denorfia
    Chris Dickerson

    For 11 years of drafting, that's a pathetic haul. And that's not even including the countless players who were called up (usually as a result of their draft position and not actually a call-up warranted by talent or performance) and provided negative WAR to undo much of the production put up by the few good players.

    Paul Janish and Jay Bruce are the only players drafted during O'Brien's time that have put up a positive WAR. There are many other players who could provide down the line, but as it is, here is who will likely be his best representatives:
    Homer Bailey
    Craig Tatum
    Paul Janish
    Robert Coello (after being released)
    *Phil Valiquette
    Jay Bruce
    Travis Wood
    Sam LeCure
    *James Avery
    Jeff Stevens
    Carlos Fisher
    Adam Rosales
    Logan Ondrusek

    I'd call that an average-to-good job of drafting, but it's not particularly impressive either. There's Jay Bruce, a bunch of spare parts, and a couple wild cards in Travis Wood and Homer Bailey. Any success Wood and Bailey have in the future will likely be a large part attributed to their new-found splitters, which they learned long after DanO was fired from the organization.

    It's way too early to judge Wayne Krivsky's drafting. Here is likely who will represent the best picks:
    Drew Stubbs
    Chris Valaika
    Jordan Smith
    Justin Turner
    Josh Roenicke
    Chris Heisey
    *Danny Dorn
    *Devin Mesoraco
    *Todd Frazier
    *Kyle Lotzkar
    *Zack Cozart
    *Scott Carroll
    *Neftali Soto
    *Matt Klinker
    *Jeff Jeffords
    *Jeremy Horst
    *Jordan Hotchkiss

    The 2006 draft wasn't all that great, but 2007 shows a lot of promise. It all comes down to the success of Todd Frazier, Zack Cozart, and Devin Mesoraco, who are all projected to be major parts of the Reds' future.

    If it's too soon to judge Krivsky's drafts, then it's even more ridiculous to judge Jocketty's drafts. Here's who he has to his name so far:
    Yonder Alonso
    *Zach Stewart
    *Tyler Cline
    *Clay Shunick
    *Alex Buchholz
    *Pedro Villarreal
    *Cody Puckett
    *Dave Sappelt
    *Blaine Howell
    *Mace Thurman
    *J.C. Sulbaran
    *Justin Freeman
    Mike Leake
    *Brad Boxberger
    *Billy Hamilton
    *Donnie Joseph
    *Mark Fleury
    *Dan Tuttle
    *Mark Serrano
    *Josh Fellhauer
    *Tucker Barnhart
    *Jake Johnson
    *Nick Christiani
    *Mitch Clarke
    *Yasmani Grandal
    *Ryan LaMarre
    *Devin Lohman
    *Brodie Green
    *Wes Mugarian
    *Drew Cisco
    *Tony Amezcua
    *David Vidal
    *Tanner Robles
    *Drew Hayes
    *Kyle Waldrop
    *Lucas O'Rear

    There is, no doubt, a lot of potential there, and it will be very interesting to see how those players perform in 2011. Still, it's nearly impossible to say how good of drafts he has had. At the moment, they're looking pretty good, though.

  12. #11
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    you're right, Im wrong mods please lock this thread

  13. #12
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I could see how what I said was interpreted as a 'slam'. I'm sorry I came off that way. Unfortunately, I don't know a much better way to word my thoughts than, "This is a bad idea for a thread." To be fair, at least I gave logical reasons for my opinion. I hope this thread turns out to be a success, but with the way it's set up, I don't see how that's possible.
    Stop being such an icehole!
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Stop being such an icehole!

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    Moderator Tommyjohn25's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Take it easy on the OP. There is nothing wrong with the thread. If you don't want to respond for any reason, then simply don't respond.
    Benzinger backing and calling! And the 1990 world championship series belongs to the Cincinnati Reds!

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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Rank the drafting of the Reds GMs since Bowden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyjohn25 View Post
    Take it easy on the OP. There is nothing wrong with the thread. If you don't want to respond for any reason, then simply don't respond.
    thank you sir


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