As with most things, Ray Bradbury saw it comin'.Originally Posted by KronoRed
As with most things, Ray Bradbury saw it comin'.
"I can make all the stadiums rock."
-Air Supply
I grok this idea
We'll go down in history as the first society that wouldn't save itself because it wasn't cost effective ~ Kurt Vonnegut
I think the issue is why start with a colony? Why not make the goal a round trip manned mission rather than leaving folks there? That's why it sounds like a suicide mission to me.
I agree. The one way thing is actually quite unnecessary IMO.
I still believe NASA and the US Gov't should adopt the plan set forth by this man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Zubrin and espoused by this organization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Society which he founded.
Here is his theory/plan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
Mars Direct.
The plan involves several launches. Proponents of Mars Direct have suggested that the heavy-lift boosters required would be no larger than the Saturn V used for the Apollo missions, and could potentially be derived from Space Shuttle components.
The first flight would bring an unmanned Earth Return Vehicle to the red planet, with a supply of hydrogen, a chemical plant and a small nuclear reactor. Once there, a series of chemical reactions (the Sabatier reaction coupled with electrolysis) would be used to combine a small amount of hydrogen (8 tons) carried by the Earth Return Vehicle with the carbon dioxide of the Martian atmosphere to create up to 112 tonnes of methane and oxygen. 96 tonnes of these would be needed to return the Earth Return Vehicle to Earth at the end of the mission, the rest would be available for Mars rovers. Proponents of the scheme have suggested that this process would take approximately ten months to complete.
Some 26 months after the Earth Return Vehicle is originally launched from Earth, a second vehicle, the "Mars Habitat Unit", would be launched to coincide with a low-energy transfer window to Mars, and would carry a crew of four astronauts. This would not be launched until the automated factory had signaled the successful production of the chemicals. This vehicle would take some six months to reach Mars. During the trip, supporters of Mars Direct have suggested that artificial gravity could be generated by tying the spent upper stage of the booster to the Habitat Unit, and setting them both rotating about a common axis.
On reaching Mars, the upper stage would be jettisoned, with the Habitat Unit aerobraking into Mars orbit before soft-landing in proximity to the Earth Return Vehicle. Precise landing would be supported by a radar beacon started by the first lander. Once on Mars, the crew would spend 18 months on the surface, carrying out a range of scientific research, aided by a small rover vehicle carried aboard their Mars Habitat Unit, and powered by the methane produced by the Earth Return Vehicle. To return, they would use the Earth Return Vehicle, leaving the Mars Habitat Unit for the possible use of subsequent explorers. The propulsion stage of the Earth Return Vehicle would be used as a counterweight to generate artificial gravity for the trip back.
The initial cost estimate for Mars Direct was put at $55 billion,[citation needed] to be paid over ten years.The idea has evolved quite a bit since initial fruition.Since Mars Direct was initially conceived, it has undergone regular review and development by Zubrin himself, the Mars Society, NASA, Stanford University and others.
Zubrin and Weaver developed a modified version of Mars Direct, called Mars Semi-Direct, in response to some specific criticisms[1]. This mission consists of three spacecraft and includes a "Mars Ascent Vehicle" (MAV). The ERV remains in Mars orbit for the return journey, while the unmanned MAV lands and manufactures propellants for the ascent back up to Mars orbit. The Mars Semi-Direct architecture has been used as the basis of a number of studies, including the NASA Design Reference Missions.
The NASA model, referred to as the Design Reference Mission, currently on version 5.0, calls for a significant upgrade in hardware (at least 3 launches per mission, rather than two), and sends the ERV to Mars fully fuelled, parking it in orbit above the planet for subsequent rendezvous with the MAV.
The Mars Society and Stanford studies retain the original 2-vehicle mission profile of Mars Direct, but increase the crew size to six.
Mars Society Australia developed their own four-person Mars Oz reference mission, based on Mars Semi-Direct. This study uses horizontally landing, bent biconic shaped modules, and relies on solar power and chemical propulsion throughout[2], where Mars Direct and the DRMs used nuclear reactors for surface power and, in the case of the DRMs for propulsion as well. The Mars Oz reference mission also differs in assuming, based on space station experience, that spin gravity will not be required.
The Mars Society has argued the viability of the Mars Habitat Unit concept through their Mars Analogue Research Station program. These are two or three decked vertical cylinders ~8 m in diameter and 8 m high. Mars Society Australia plans to build its own station based on the Mars Oz design[3]. The Mars Oz design features a horizontal cylinder 4.7 m in diameter and 18 m long, with a tapered nose. A second similar module will function as a garage and power and logistics module.
Mars Direct was featured on a Discovery Channel programs Mars: The Next Frontier in which issues were discussed surrounding NASA funding of the project, and on Mars Underground, where the plan is discussed more in-depth.
Last edited by WMR; 10-28-2010 at 09:32 PM.
Thou art God
"...You just have a wider lens than one game."
--Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.
"...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
--Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.
It's a question of goals, more than anything else. The proponents of the "Mars One Way" plan believe that the ultimate purpose of the space program should be a permanent human presence in space. Their future looks a lot like Gene Roddenberry meets John O'Sullivan -- human beings spreading as far out as possible, living and working in space and on other planets. The goal is human colonies not just on Mars, but floating cities on Venus, mines on Asteroids, space stations circling the Earth, etc.
Trouble is, everyone in the 1960s / 1970s assumed that we'd be doing that right now. Instead, Apollo 18, 19, and 20 were scrubbed and the Apollo Applications Projects (including the planned Venus fly-by) were scrubbed as well. Since Apollo 17 returned in 1972, no human being has left Earth orbit. We've had 38 years of almost total stagnation in space exploration. That's positively amazing, when you consider we went from Sputnik (10/58) to Armstrong (7/69) in under 12 years. That's the risk you take, though, when politicians set the funding and the agenda for agencies like NASA. People thought the moon was a stepping stone to greater things, but the budget was dialed back and that went awry. This point was underscored again this past year, when Obama killed Project Constellation just a few years after Bush had expressed full support for the program.
The "One way ticket" plan forces everyone's hand, though. Sending people to Mars without a ride home and starting a colony is an "all in" moment for manned spaceflight. You can't cut funding for the program or back out once the rocket lifts off. There isn't a risk that a new President or a new Congress will scrub the project and leave the colonists up there to die. If anything, it creates an incentive to run the project through to it's logical end in the hope of achieving sustainability.
If the goal is just exploration of Mars -- learning about the planet and possibly pushing the frontiers of human ability -- then yeah, the "Mars Direct" plan is the best way to go about things. They could begin that right now. But, if the goal is guaranteeing a future for human beings in space, then the "Mars One Way" has a bit of merit, IMO.
Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022
That's what they want you to think
After doing some brief digging online, it appears you're right, WilyMo. I must be confusing this with something else I watched on a similar subject.
Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.
This thread reminds me of the Dave Chappelle "Black Bush" skip where he was wanting to go to mars and form the "United States of Space."
"MARS B**ches!"
"Trying is the first step towards failure." Homer Simpson
"I wasn't looking too good but I was feeling real well." Keith Richards
Since the Martian year is about 687 days, we're going to have to adjust a few things. Also gives us a clean slate for making some general social improvements.
We will need more months in the year. I propose Georgetober, Fostertober, and Month15.
162 games / 365 days = 44%. That means the Martian League Baseball regular season will be about 305 games long.
Chick-Fil-A will be open every day of the week. Closed on Sunday only applies to Earth.
You can buy Girl Scout cookies 687 days of the year.
Fewer birthdays as a kid will be rough. Until you get older. Then fewer birthdays will be a very good thing. Plus, the legal drinking age will be like 11 and you'll be allowed to drive on your 8th birthday.
Different gravity on Mars means that everyone is going to weigh a LOT less. Like less than half of what you weigh on earth. That's something the Martian Chamber of Commerce should definitely highlight in the recruiting literature.
We'll probably need to come up with at least a new working title for Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.
Will Earth Day be observed on Mars? Will Going Green on Earth become Going Red on Mars?
Tying human lives to gov't funding is not prudent IMO.
I am a proponent of crawl before we walk. My guess is the result of Mars One Way will be that of a bunch of dead bodies
All I can say is, watch out for the angry looking guy with the Pu-36 explosive space modulator.
Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.
Since the Martian year is about 687 days, we're going to have to adjust a few things. Also gives us a clean slate for making some general social improvements.
We will need more months in the year. I propose Georgetober, Fostertober, and Month15.
162 games / 365 days = 44%. That means the Martian League Baseball regular season will be about 305 games long.
Chick-Fil-A will be open every day of the week. Closed on Sunday only applies to Earth.
You can buy Girl Scout cookies 687 days of the year.
Fewer birthdays as a kid will be rough. Until you get older. Then fewer birthdays will be a very good thing. Plus, the legal drinking age will be like 11 and you'll be allowed to drive on your 8th birthday.
Different gravity on Mars means that everyone is going to weigh a LOT less. Like less than half of what you weigh on earth. That's something the Martian Chamber of Commerce should definitely highlight in the recruiting literature.
We'll probably need to come up with at least a new working title for Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.
Will Earth Day be observed on Mars? Will Going Green on Earth become Going Red on Mars?
That's awesome.
We'll go down in history as the first society that wouldn't save itself because it wasn't cost effective ~ Kurt Vonnegut
They'll need a big humidor for that ballpark.
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