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Thread: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Both Arthur Rhodes & Ramon Hernandez are officially type A free agents. If the Reds offer them arbitration & they turn it down then when they sign elsewhere we get two extra draft picks. Sounds pretty sweet. However there are two problems here. 1) they could accept arbitration & we might not want them to and 2) they could decline arbitration & then a team might shy away from signing them due to the fact that they aren't world beaters (just solid guys to have on a 25 man roster). I can't see a team losing their first round pick to sign either of these guys.

    What do people think these guys would get in arbitration?
    Ramon made $3M this year & Arthur made $2M.

    The 2nd problem above works in the Reds favor IF they want the guys back. I suspect that if the team offered them arbitration they would accept it rather than risk being lost if a kind of no man's land that has caught a few guys in recent years.
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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Both Arthur Rhodes & Ramon Hernandez are officially type A free agents. If the Reds offer them arbitration & they turn it down then when they sign elsewhere we get two extra draft picks. Sounds pretty sweet. However there are two problems here. 1) they could accept arbitration & we might not want them to and 2) they could decline arbitration & then a team might shy away from signing them due to the fact that they aren't world beaters (just solid guys to have on a 25 man roster). I can't see a team losing their first round pick to sign either of these guys.

    What do people think these guys would get in arbitration?Ramon made $3M this year & Arthur made $2M.

    The 2nd problem above works in the Reds favor IF they want the guys back. I suspect that if the team offered them arbitration they would accept it rather than risk being lost if a kind of no man's land that has caught a few guys in recent years.

    I like Rhodes and Hernandez, both had a very productive season.

    In my humble opinion neither Rhodes or Hernandez will come close to putting up those same numbers in 2011.

    I believe they would both jump at the chance to go to arbitration if the Reds offer. Both will be grossly overpaid in 2011 if that happens.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    I'd guess Rhodes would get about 3.5 and Hernandez would stay at 3.

    I don't think the Reds offer arb to Hernandez. BP just had a "quick cut" that said the Reds were leaning towards not bringing Hernandez back -- not sure the source of that.

    I think they will offer Rhodes arb, but will agree on a contract before the hearing takes place.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'd guess Rhodes would get about 3.5 and Hernandez would stay at 3.

    I don't think the Reds offer arb to Hernandez. BP just had a "quick cut" that said the Reds were leaning towards not bringing Hernandez back -- not sure the source of that.

    I think they will offer Rhodes arb, but will agree on a contract before the hearing takes place.
    Even if he had the drop off in 2011 that most expect Ramon could still be worth more than $3M (based on WAR he was worth $10.6M this year).
    If Rhodes goes the pen is left with Bray, Herrera & Chapman (who may start) as the lefties. Yet I question whether the team has the financial resources to bring these guys back at those prices and still upgrade other spots. The question would be: would you risk offering these guys arbitration if you thought they would get $3.5M & $3M?
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Even if he had the drop off in 2011 that most expect Ramon could still be worth more than $3M (based on WAR he was worth $10.6M this year).
    If Rhodes goes the pen is left with Bray, Herrera & Chapman (who may start) as the lefties. Yet I question whether the team has the financial resources to bring these guys back at those prices and still upgrade other spots. The question would be: would you risk offering these guys arbitration if you thought they would get $3.5M & $3M?
    I would bring both back on 1 year deals -- but I would not go to arbitration. I would be looking to trade them both mid-season.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    I think there is zero chacne we offer arbitration to either, unless the Reds wouldn't mind them accepting.

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  8. #7
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I would bring both back on 1 year deals -- but I would not go to arbitration. I would be looking to trade them both mid-season.
    Hernandez is the one I am leaning more towards keeping than Rhodes. Rhodes had a nice run but I don't know if he can continue to ward off father time.

    As for Hernandez I would happily pay a couple of million to have him next season and allow Mesoraco to fully develop in AAA. Do what the Giants did with Molina. Keep him until Mes pushes him off his position and onto another team.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Hernandez is the one I am leaning more towards keeping than Rhodes. Rhodes had a nice run but I don't know if he can continue to ward off father time. .
    I think that's a question of health, not effectiveness. The issues he had at the end of the year were troubling. But we saw virtually no degradation in his performance. Short of an injury, I see no reason to expect a massive regression.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #9
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Health concerns me with Rhodes. So I would decline arb but offer him a 1 year $1.5 / $2.0 deal. No way do I multi year him. (Hello Mike Lincoln) If he doesn't accept that offer move on with Herrera/Maloney/Joseph as his replacement to start the season.

    Hernandez is a bigger no. Mesoraco will be ready at some point during the season. Hernandez won't have much trade value if any at all at $3+ Million and the pitching staff performs better with Hanigan behind the plate. I say go Hanigan and Miller to start the season and move Mesoraco up in May/June and waive Corky down to Louisville and go from there. Save that cash (Hernandez) for a deadline deal.
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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    Health concerns me with Rhodes. So I would decline arb but offer him a 1 year $1.5 / $2.0 deal. No way do I multi year him. (Hello Mike Lincoln) If he doesn't accept that offer move on with Herrera/Maloney/Joseph as his replacement to start the season.

    Hernandez is a bigger no. Mesoraco will be ready at some point during the season. Hernandez won't have much trade value if any at all at $3+ Million and the pitching staff performs better with Hanigan behind the plate. I say go Hanigan and Miller to start the season and move Mesoraco up in May/June and waive Corky down to Louisville and go from there. Save that cash (Hernandez) for a deadline deal.
    I agree with most of this. I'd like to see Rhodes back, but I recognize that there is a chance he'd go way south. I wonder how the situation with Rhodes will impact the path of Chapman.

    All of the points about Ramon are right on, The only thing missing is the probable 75 to 100 point drop in OPS that he'd put-up. I get the idea of thinking Ramon/Mes is like Molina/Posey, but Ramon is no Molina and it isn't even close. Molina is a superb defensive catcher who has more power than Ramon as well. Ramon's big year will probably drive his arb price above $5 Million. He'd need to come back for a pay cut to make it worthwhile and, well, he had a good year so why should he?
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  12. #11
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    Health concerns me with Rhodes. So I would decline arb but offer him a 1 year $1.5 / $2.0 deal. No way do I multi year him. (Hello Mike Lincoln) If he doesn't accept that offer move on with Herrera/Maloney/Joseph as his replacement to start the season.

    Hernandez is a bigger no. Mesoraco will be ready at some point during the season. Hernandez won't have much trade value if any at all at $3+ Million and the pitching staff performs better with Hanigan behind the plate. I say go Hanigan and Miller to start the season and move Mesoraco up in May/June and waive Corky down to Louisville and go from there. Save that cash (Hernandez) for a deadline deal.

    I agree with each and every point made in this post.

  13. #12
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: How much would Rhodes & Hernandez get in arbitration?

    If the Reds absolutely need a spanish speaking, veteran catcher, I am sure they can find a decent one for much less than what Hernandez would get in arbitration.

    Offering guys like this arbitration, would just mean that no team would be willing to sign them. They are not worth the draft picks. The players would know this, and jump at the chance of arbitration.

    I like RMR's plan with Rhodes, but I would only offer it to him, if I were sure that he would sign before it went to arbitration.
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