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Thread: Aaron Harang and Mario Soto

  1. #1
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Aaron Harang and Mario Soto

    I know that Soto at his peak was much better than Harang at his, but, without looking at specific numbers too much, is it fair to say that their careers as Reds were kind of similar?

    I know Soto came up in the Reds system and Harang was acquired via trade, but both had a few very good years but for very bad Reds teams and though Harang did get to play on a playoff team (though not the roster) both are almost tragic figures (as much as being a big-league ballplayer can be so, of course) in the "what if they had played on a good team while in their prime?"

    This thought just came to mind as I read the thread about the Reds declining Harang's option. He was so solid for a couple of years, but was about the only dependable starter we had.

    Soto was so dominating in the early 80's when I was a kid and my love of baseball was as high as ever. He put up some nasty numbers, especially in ERA and strikeouts, but never had a good enough team to put up a lot of wins.

    Maybe I'm completely off-the-wall with this post, but it just seems to me that they had a similarly sad career with their best performances being wasted (if that's not too strong a term) on some lousy Reds teams.

    Neither will ever be legends, but I will remember both fondly for their days with the Reds.

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  3. #2
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Mario Soto made the AS team in an era that pitching was at a premium, his 4 year run of excellence involved 4 years with over 237 IP.

    He's the better pitcher.

    Want a Harang comp?

    Start at Bob Ewing and look down

  4. #3
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Harang was the best pitcher on a bad team a lot of years. So was Elmer Dessens once upon a time.

    Soto was a very good pitcher on a bad team.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
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  5. #4
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    That's probably a better way to put it.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Harang was the best pitcher on a bad team a lot of years. So was Elmer Dessens once upon a time.

    Soto was a very good pitcher on a bad team.

  6. #5
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Harang was the best pitcher on a bad team a lot of years. So was Elmer Dessens once upon a time.

    Soto was a very good pitcher on a bad team.
    Put it this way, Harang was a better pitcher than Browning... by a hair.

  7. #6
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Similar pitchers:

    Code:
       1. Bill Wegman (959)
       2. Bobby Jones (958)
       3. Melido Perez (957)
       4. Erik Hanson (952)
       5. Gil Meche (951)
       6. Jake Westbrook (950)
       7. Mike Smithson (950)
       8. Len Barker (949)
       9. Odalis Perez (947)
      10. Carl Pavano (946)
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  8. #7
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Put it this way, Harang was a better pitcher than Browning... by a hair.
    It's a decent comparison, but Browning's career numbers are actually better... by a hair.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  9. #8
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Harang:

    Code:
    Year 	Age 	Tm 	Lg 	W 	L 	W-L% 	ERA 	G 	GS 	GF 	CG 	SHO 	SV 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	IBB 	SO 	HBP 	BK 	WP 	BF 	ERA+ 	WHIP 	H/9 	HR/9 	BB/9 	SO/9 	SO/BB 	Awards
    2002 	24 	OAK 	AL 	5 	4 	.556 	4.83 	16 	15 	0 	0 	0 	0 	78.1 	78 	44 	42 	7 	45 	2 	64 	3 	0 	1 	354 	90 	1.570 	9.0 	0.8 	5.2 	7.4 	1.42 	
    2003 	25 	TOT 	MLB 	5 	6 	.455 	5.31 	16 	15 	1 	0 	0 	0 	76.1 	89 	47 	45 	11 	19 	0 	42 	1 	1 	3 	327 	81 	1.415 	10.5 	1.3 	2.2 	5.0 	2.21 	
    2003 	25 	OAK 	AL 	1 	3 	.250 	5.34 	7 	6 	1 	0 	0 	0 	30.1 	41 	19 	18 	5 	9 	0 	16 	0 	1 	0 	136 	84 	1.648 	12.2 	1.5 	2.7 	4.7 	1.78 	
    2003 	25 	CIN 	NL 	4 	3 	.571 	5.28 	9 	9 	0 	0 	0 	0 	46.0 	48 	28 	27 	6 	10 	0 	26 	1 	0 	3 	191 	79 	1.261 	9.4 	1.2 	2.0 	5.1 	2.60 	
    2004 	26 	CIN 	NL 	10 	9 	.526 	4.86 	28 	28 	0 	1 	1 	0 	161.0 	177 	90 	87 	26 	53 	5 	125 	5 	0 	7 	711 	88 	1.429 	9.9 	1.5 	3.0 	7.0 	2.36 	
    2005 	27 	CIN 	NL 	11 	13 	.458 	3.83 	32 	32 	0 	1 	0 	0 	211.2 	217 	93 	90 	22 	51 	3 	163 	8 	0 	6 	887 	112 	1.266 	9.2 	0.9 	2.2 	6.9 	3.20 	
    2006 	28 	CIN 	NL 	16 	11 	.593 	3.76 	36 	35 	0 	6 	2 	0 	234.1 	242 	109 	98 	28 	56 	8 	216 	8 	1 	6 	993 	124 	1.272 	9.3 	1.1 	2.2 	8.3 	3.86 	
    2007 	29 	CIN 	NL 	16 	6 	.727 	3.73 	34 	34 	0 	2 	1 	0 	231.2 	213 	100 	96 	28 	52 	3 	218 	8 	1 	12 	948 	124 	1.144 	8.3 	1.1 	2.0 	8.5 	4.19 	CYA-4
    2008 	30 	CIN 	NL 	6 	17 	.261 	4.78 	30 	29 	0 	1 	1 	0 	184.1 	205 	104 	98 	35 	50 	5 	153 	2 	0 	2 	793 	93 	1.383 	10.0 	1.7 	2.4 	7.5 	3.06 	
    2009 	31 	CIN 	NL 	6 	14 	.300 	4.21 	26 	26 	0 	2 	1 	0 	162.1 	186 	82 	76 	24 	43 	6 	142 	4 	0 	6 	703 	100 	1.411 	10.3 	1.3 	2.4 	7.9 	3.30 	
    2010 	32 	CIN 	NL 	6 	7 	.462 	5.32 	22 	20 	1 	0 	0 	0 	111.2 	139 	71 	66 	16 	38 	0 	82 	4 	0 	9 	504 	75 	1.585 	11.2 	1.3 	3.1 	6.6 	2.16 	
    9 Seasons 	               81 	87 	.482 	4.33 	240 	234 	2 	13 	6 	0 	1451.2 	1546 	740 	698 	197 	407 	32 	1205 	43 	3 	52 	6220 	102 	1.345 	9.6 	1.2 	2.5 	7.5 	2.96
    Browning:

    Code:
    Year 	Age 	Tm 	Lg 	W 	L 	W-L% 	ERA 	G 	GS 	GF 	CG 	SHO 	SV 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	IBB 	SO 	HBP 	BK 	WP 	BF 	ERA+ 	WHIP 	H/9 	HR/9 	BB/9 	SO/9 	SO/BB 	Awards
    1984 	24 	CIN 	NL 	1 	0 	1.000 	1.54 	3 	3 	0 	0 	0 	0 	23.1 	27 	4 	4 	0 	5 	0 	14 	0 	0 	1 	95 	249 	1.371 	10.4 	0.0 	1.9 	5.4 	2.80 	
    1985 	25 	CIN 	NL 	20 	9 	.690 	3.55 	38 	38 	0 	6 	4 	0 	261.1 	242 	111 	103 	29 	73 	8 	155 	3 	0 	2 	1083 	107 	1.205 	8.3 	1.0 	2.5 	5.3 	2.12 	CYA-6,RoY-2
    1986 	26 	CIN 	NL 	14 	13 	.519 	3.81 	39 	39 	0 	4 	2 	0 	243.1 	225 	123 	103 	26 	70 	6 	147 	1 	0 	3 	1016 	102 	1.212 	8.3 	1.0 	2.6 	5.4 	2.10 	
    1987 	27 	CIN 	NL 	10 	13 	.435 	5.02 	32 	31 	1 	2 	0 	0 	183.0 	201 	107 	102 	27 	61 	7 	117 	5 	4 	2 	791 	84 	1.432 	9.9 	1.3 	3.0 	5.8 	1.92 	
    1988 	28 	CIN 	NL 	18 	5 	.783 	3.41 	36 	36 	0 	5 	2 	0 	250.2 	205 	98 	95 	36 	64 	3 	124 	7 	4 	2 	1001 	105 	1.073 	7.4 	1.3 	2.3 	4.5 	1.94 	
    1989 	29 	CIN 	NL 	15 	12 	.556 	3.39 	37 	37 	0 	9 	2 	0 	249.2 	241 	109 	94 	31 	64 	10 	118 	3 	1 	2 	1031 	107 	1.222 	8.7 	1.1 	2.3 	4.3 	1.84 	
    1990 	30 	CIN 	NL 	15 	9 	.625 	3.80 	35 	35 	0 	2 	1 	0 	227.2 	235 	98 	96 	24 	52 	13 	99 	5 	1 	5 	957 	105 	1.261 	9.3 	0.9 	2.1 	3.9 	1.90 	
    1991 	31 	CIN 	NL 	14 	14 	.500 	4.18 	36 	36 	0 	1 	0 	0 	230.1 	241 	124 	107 	32 	56 	4 	115 	4 	1 	3 	983 	92 	1.289 	9.4 	1.3 	2.2 	4.5 	2.05 	AS
    1992 	32 	CIN 	NL 	6 	5 	.545 	5.07 	16 	16 	0 	0 	0 	0 	87.0 	108 	49 	49 	6 	28 	7 	33 	2 	1 	3 	386 	72 	1.563 	11.2 	0.6 	2.9 	3.4 	1.18 	
    1993 	33 	CIN 	NL 	7 	7 	.500 	4.74 	21 	20 	0 	0 	0 	0 	114.0 	159 	61 	60 	15 	20 	2 	53 	1 	1 	1 	505 	86 	1.570 	12.6 	1.2 	1.6 	4.2 	2.65 	
    1994 	34 	CIN 	NL 	3 	1 	.750 	4.20 	7 	7 	0 	2 	1 	0 	40.2 	34 	20 	19 	8 	13 	1 	22 	1 	0 	1 	169 	100 	1.156 	7.5 	1.8 	2.9 	4.9 	1.69 	
    1995 	35 	KCR 	AL 	0 	2 	.000 	8.10 	2 	2 	0 	0 	0 	0 	10.0 	13 	9 	9 	2 	5 	0 	3 	0 	0 	0 	49 	61 	1.800 	11.7 	1.8 	4.5 	2.7 	0.60 	
    12 Seasons 	                123 	90 	.577 	3.94 	302 	300 	1 	31 	12 	0 	1921.0 	1931 	913 	841 	236 	511 	61 	1000 	32 	13 	25 	8066 	98 	1.271 	9.0 	1.1 	2.4 	4.7 	1.96
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  10. #9
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Aarong Harang and Mario Soto

    Harang looked better than he was because the rest of the staff was so bad. There were some other arms in the rotation during his hay days, just no bats.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  11. #10
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Aaron Harang and Mario Soto

    IP Greater than 600
    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    CAREER
    1978-2009
    
    ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    NEUTRAL WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    NEUTRAL LOSSES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED >= 75
    
    RSAA                           RSAA      ERA      N_W      N_L      IP       GS     
    1    Jose Rijo                   177     0.99      101       57   1478        215   
    2    Mario Soto                   64     0.21      102       82   1669.2      214   
    3    Bronson Arroyo               50     0.36       57       46    871.2      136   
    4    Aaron Harang                 38     0.16       76       66   1231.1      193   
    5    Tom Seaver                   32     0.28       55       49    920.1      138   
    6    Joe Price                    16     0.05       36       31    659.2       75   
    7    John Smiley                   2     0.03       48       48    775.1      123   
    8    Tom Browning                -15     -.22      104      107   1911        298   
    9    Bruce Berenyi               -18     -.37       38       41    613.1      102   
    10   Frank Pastore               -62     -.69       45       57    937        138


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