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Thread: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

  1. #301
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Given the cynicism that requires, why even be a fan of college football?
    I don't think it requires cynicism really. More like common sense.

    We know for a fact that he had a plan in place to get paid $180,000 to play football at MSU. I don't think it's much of a reach to think that Auburn paid him too.

    Or put another way jojo if I offer you $180,000 to do something and somebody else offers you nothing to do the exact same thing which offer are you going to take?

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  3. #302
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Taken in a vacuum, the NCAA made a kind decision for Cam. The young man knew nothing about the financial deal his dad was proposing and neither did Auburn. How can they fault him for that? Is he supposed to be omniscient? Is his future sacrificed because he's not?

    But its a very disturbing precedent and it just seems like the next domino falling. I don;'t know where the NCAA goes from here. As long as the young person has plausible deniability, what's to stop family from shopping the kid around?

    Pay attention to the open sky

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    I don't think it requires cynicism really. More like common sense.

    We know for a fact that he had a plan in place to get paid $180,000 to play football at MSU. I don't think it's much of a reach to think that Auburn paid him too.

    Or put another way jojo if I offer you $180,000 to do something and somebody else offers you nothing to do the exact same thing which offer are you going to take?
    There wasn't actually a $180K offer in place.

    Starkville or Auburn? That's easy calculus.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    There wasn't actually a $180K offer in place.

    Starkville or Auburn? That's easy calculus.
    Umm yes there was. The NCAA has said as much.

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    I don't think it requires cynicism really. More like common sense.

    We know for a fact that he had a plan in place to get paid $180,000 to play football at MSU. I don't think it's much of a reach to think that Auburn paid him too.

    Or put another way jojo if I offer you $180,000 to do something and somebody else offers you nothing to do the exact same thing which offer are you going to take?
    We seem to know that Cam's father asked for $180K to play but we don't know that any school agreed to it. If no school is paying Cam Newton then I don't see that anyone has violated any rules.

    However the only thing this ruling says is that Cam is eligible to play this weekend. That's all.

    ...But Lenin seems to have left the door open for future discipline. The NCAA would not say Wednesday that the case is closed, referring to its statement that notes reinstatement likely occurs "prior to the close of an investigation."

  7. #306
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    To be fair, I've not seen any evidence that the MSU booster agreed to pay the Newtons. All we know is that they asked. I don't know that the deal was in place.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Until yesterday, Cecil's actions were understood to make Cam ineligible PERIOD, not just at MSU. And until yesterday, it was understood that since Cecil Newton was undeniably involved in his son's recruiting and the decision-making process, putting his hand out counted the same as Cam putting his hand out. That is why people are reacting -- the NCAA issued a ruling at odds with what most everyone in the game believed the rules and precedents to be, and they don't think the change is for the better. I guess we can pass that off as "gray area" if we want, but a whole lot of people who don't have a dog in the Cam Newton fight were incredulous.
    What are the comps for this scenario? A lot of people are incredulous, but a lot has been assumed too.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    If Kanter wanted money, wouldn't he (and his family) have just taken the million bucks and gone pro? He was offered just that and didn't.

    And to say you can't take money or you'll be denied NCAA eligibility is just plain wrong. You can take money. Almost every Division I athlete gets money from his school, in fact. (Remember, this is how John Selby is paying back the money he "owes" to the NCAA.)

    So do many high schools. Kanter's father spent $20,000 on tutors and kept the rest in a bank account untouched. Why would he have known how much was permissable? Was there an NCAA person he could have contacted that would have helped him? (Hint: nope. Not one.)

    Simply put, any argument that supports the idea that Kanter deserves to be ineligible while also supporting the idea that Selby deserves to play smacks of a double standard. You're either taking money (and thus, ineligible) or not taking money (and thus eligible).

    Though, apparently, if your father pimps you out for $180,000 and you know nothing of it, it's okay.
    Not necessarily, the exposure and training he would have received at UK was worth FAR more than $1,000,000. Even if the exact numbers don't bear it out, he still could have made the decision to play after he had accepted $33,000. That still wouldn't make him eligible.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Both Wilbon and Kornheiser called this a serioiusly agenda driven ruling by the NCAA on PTI yesterday, claiming that if they weren't in the national champinship picture, it would have been a different story altogether. Their point was, right now you have 2, and only 2, undefeated teams from major conferences making the national championship game decision an easy one. If you take Auburn out of the picture, then it's a mess like it is in a lot of other years.

    Wilbon went even as far as to say if it were someone other than TCU sitting there are #3 it also would have been different. I'm not sure I buy that, but I don't doubt that the mess it would create for the BCS factored into the current ruling.

    It's rare that the news media is ever in agreement across the board on an issue. This appears to be an exception as I've not heard one significnat media personality say it was the correct ruling.... a rare consensus.
    I'm not sure I buy this particular conspiracy theory. Though its member institutions are obviously in favor of the BCS(or at least the heavy hitters,) I don't think the NCAA as an entity in Indianapolis has a lot of love lost for the bowl system. You don't think the NCAA wouldn want to have control of the football National Championship(It has almost zero control now.) If the NCAA really were operating in its own best interests, it would have ruled Cam Newton ineligible.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    jojo, I'm curious what you think everyone's agenda is here. I'm not talking about just us on Redszone, but everywhere. There seems to be wholesale belief that this was the wrong ruling and a horrible precendent. You seem to think everyone who thinks this has an agenda of some sort. Why is this so universally detested?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Umm yes there was. The NCAA has said as much.
    No they didn't. There was an inquiry about special benefits. There was no agreement in place to pay the $180K.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    jojo, I'm curious what you think everyone's agenda is here. I'm not talking about just us on Redszone, but everywhere. There seems to be wholesale belief that this was the wrong ruling and a horrible precendent. You seem to think everyone who thinks this has an agenda of some sort. Why is this so universally detested?
    Why does there have to be an agenda? I haven't said everyone who disagrees with either me, or more importantly the NCAA has an agenda. Tigerdroppings clearly has an agenda. Thats a nutcase slice of the internet however.

    I think a lot of the arguments that many who disagree with the ruling have made are based upon premises that aren't necessarily factually correct or beg some important questions and that has been the general MO of the way the story has been handled almost from the get go. Even the original report from ESPN/NYT contains inaccuracies that few bother to correct.

    Agenda? I wouldn't argue that. I do think this is a very complicated issue though and the devil is always in the details. Unless someone has a vested interest, it's understandable that they might not have spent the effort to comb through the finer details. Unfortunately with this story, the finer details are extremely important.

    Then of course, someone could understand the facts accurately and still have the opinion that the NCAA was wrong. I'd wholly disagree with the position though-and it's not because of a bias.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #313
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    The relevant facts as determined by the NCAA are these-while the actions of Cecil and Rogers violated Cam's amateur status at MSU, no special benefits were agreed to, granted or received and the scenario was conducted without the knowledge of the player and outside of the purview of the institution he committed to...
    It's funny that you keep falling back on others being ahead of the facts, yet the NCAA did not even determine what you just said. The NCAA, by their own admission, just said they don't have enough evidence to conclude these things, but they stopped short of saying there were no special benefits granted or received and that the player didn't know.

    I think you are smart enough to know the difference between concluding those things didn't happen and not having enough evidence to prove they happened.

    The NCAA's statement was kind of funny because they strongly hinted that the current ruling was more about not having enough to go on right now than clearing the Newtons of the allegations.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #314
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Some Cam Newton humor that most people will enjoy (clearly not everyone)...

    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I think you are smart enough to know the difference between concluding those things didn't happen and not having enough evidence to prove they happened.
    What I think is that there isn't room to split a hair between tomato and tomato and just because a bald man goes to the barber, it doesn't mean he had hair....

    The assertion that special benefits were agreed to, granted and received in return for Cam's commitment simply can't be supported by the facts. Do you dispute this? If so, what is your evidence?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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