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Thread: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

  1. #91
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    The reason doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if there's an above board reason for it or not. People can take out that much money, and it's not the least bit illegal to take it out. If you, or the NCAA, were to ask all the banks in Alabama for a list of all the people who had withdrawn more than $50K from their bank accounts in one period, they'd come back with the same number of people on their list as they started. ZERO
    Oh, and by the way, the FBI is now involved.

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I don't see how you would get the impression that someone asking for nearly $200k for his son's services would suddenly just go somewhere else for nothing. That seems like a real stretch. If what is being alleged here is true, it's really far fetched to think Auburn (or at least an Auburn booster) did everything by the books.

    Further, since we're assuming this story is true, it's hard to ignore the following comment:
    Lets pause for a second and just consider what we think we know. Rogers apparently left a pretty wide trail concerning whatever he was doing at MSU and Newton Sr may or may not have been supportive of his efforts. MSU continued to recruit Cam for a significant time following the date Rogers is first alleged to have asked MSU for money in exchange for Cam's commitment.

    At the same time as the Rogers-MSU interactions, several schools including Auburn and Oklahoma were recruiting Cam. However, Rogers would've had to completely change his MO when interacting with other schools given there has been no link between Auburn and Rogers either through people accounts, phone records or financials. No other school has stepped up to collaborate the notion that Rogers was shopping Cam around. Actually the only info from other institutions has been completely unrelated and illegal leaks about Cam's academic record when he was a t Florida.

    I agree that something is fishy and it seems to be Rogers/MSU.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    If you now accept that the allegations are true, or at least very well could be, it's hard to accept anything that leaves Auburn clean in this mess. If the father had his hand out, there's just no rational way of concluding that he didn't go to the highest bidder -- or at least someone willing to pay near what he was asking.
    But where are the ties that would support such supposition? Its apparently been very easy to uncover Rogers' business while in Starkville. Wouldn't it be even harder for him to suddenly become super covert in Auburn? What about other schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Mississippi State might be facing some collateral damage, I'll grant you, but Auburn is in serious trouble if the allegations in these reports are factual. These kinds of details often wind up being rather damning.

    If Cecil Newton had his hand out, it's not likely he suddenly called off the dogs and had his son go to Auburn just for the heck of it.
    This is a big leap. We're only hearing about alleged improprieties in Starkville. As the story stands today, it's Auburn suffering the collateral damage from MSU's inappropriate relationship with Rogers. I get why its tempting to project the Starkville stench onto Auburn but we really need to see proof for why that is actually appropriate.

    It's entirely possible that Cam went to the school recruiting him that he thought best allowed his family to be a part of his college experience (i.e. reasonably close to home), gave him the best chance to start, go to bowls over the next two years, and build his NFL resume. Malzahn and Chizik among other things are excellent recruiters and the Malzahn offense coupled with Auburn's experienced offensive line was a perfect fit for Cam.

    We probably shouldn't stray too far ahead of the facts when making conclusions about this mess.
    Last edited by jojo; 11-12-2010 at 07:50 AM.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    If Cam's dad even solicited money for a commitment from his son, even if he wound up at another university for free, that's all it will take. He'll be done.
    If his recruitment to Auburn was as clean as it appears to be, it's very possible that his eligibility does not get revoked next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Jojo, do you really believe this is all smoke an no fire? If you believe that then you put ZERO credence is the sources who claim to have heard from Cam after his acceptance to Auburn where he claimed the money was too much to pass up. Look, I'm not one to automatically assume these things are truth, but I also tend to not believe these types of things are completely fabricated.
    It sure would be nice to have names for those sources. If true, MSU would basically be toast. Also, how is it possible for Rogers to be so apparently transparent in Starkville and then so covert at other schools. How could Cam be so naive with MSU recruiters and so evil genius at Auburn concerning paper, phone, and money trails?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    And it could be that he had no knowledge of Auburn's recruitment because he didn't actually play at Auburn with one of the coaches. But that's just me.
    If Rogers was actually trusted by Newton Sr to solicit money from MSU and their relationship truly went as far back as Florida, would it make sense for Rogers to have no involvement in Cam's recruitment at other schools? How would Rogers know he was getting the best deal possible from MSU? We keep hearing supposition about highest bidders etc, well this would have to be the weirdest auction ever. Yet, there are no facts yet to suggest Rogers was interacting on Cam's behalf with other schools. Does it seem likely that the Newtons recruited contacts within the programs of every school that recruited Cam? We have no evidence to support that notion.

    It's looking increasingly like Rogers is a virus in the MSU program and MSU isn't completely healthy.

    And we also know that Rogers has issues with the NFL etc.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    So jojo, what are you suggesting most likely happened?
    Here's a best guess based upon everything that appears backed up by named sources.

    Newton Sr and Rogers probably had some type of a loose relationship. Rogers has ties to MSU and he tried to use them to get money as he knew MSU was recruiting Cam and saw this as an in to strengthen his relationship with the Newtons in preparation for an NFL association. Meanwhile Cam's father was managing several schools who were recruiting Cam simultaneously. It's probably likely that Cam's father was considering the possibility that MSU would pay money as part of the decision.

    Ultimately MSU didn't give money and Cam's camp went with the program that best fit his chances for a large NFL payday, a decision that appears to have been made without the exchange of money or the influence of Rogers.
    Last edited by jojo; 11-12-2010 at 12:33 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to think they tried with MSU, but when it failed decided not to risk it and go somewhere else.

    However, if this is truly what happened then that means these unnamed sources are a complete fabrication. Is it possible? Perhaps. It just seems not as likely to me.

    The one part of your theory that doesn't quite jive for me is the idea that Rogers was working alone on this hoping to get in the good graces of Cecil Newton. As a matter of fact, if Newton wasn't in favor of seeking out a cash deal, doing THAT on his own would have been the way to completely derail the relationship as it could really get him in trouble (like is happening right now).

    Rogers is obviously not the most upstanding person in the world, but he's speaking out publicly now and even naming names. For your theory to be true, Rogers has to be completely fabricating the story about meeting with Newton. To me, that just doesn't seem to fit.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Oh, and by the way, the FBI is now involved.
    Well now, that's a horse of a different color
    To be honest, I probably should have made clear that my statements were in the general paying of recruits and not this specific case. And I admittedly overstepped when suggesting that you could hide $200K easily. My main point is that if you're going to pay recruits, doing it in cash is by far the best way to do it, because it leaves the least paper trail of any payment.

    But when you pay $200K you probably have to be a little bit more discreet and delicate than Cam Newton's father was.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Here's a best guess based upon everything that appears backed up by named sources.

    Newton Sr and Rogers probably had some type of a loose relationship. Rogers has ties to MSU and he tried to use them to get money as he knew MSU was recruiting Cam and saw this as an in to strengthen his relationship with the Newtons in preparation for an NFL association. Meanwhile Cam's father was managing several schools who were recruiting Cam simultaneously. It's probably likely that Cam's father was considering the possibility that MSU would pay money as part of the decision.

    Ultimately MSU didn't give money and Cam's camp went with the program that best fit his chances for a large NFL payday, a decision that appears to have been made without the exchange of money or the influence of Rogers.
    Im sorry jojo but this is laughable.

    First of all I had always thought that Newton's connection to MSU was through Dan Mullen. I think Rogers acted upon Newton's father and his desire to get $ for Cam's services.

    When Miss. St. wouldn't pony up Newton's father went elsewhere looking for money. What is even more damning is the reports of Newton calling up MSU and telling them he is sorry but his father wanted him to go elsewhere.

    I can see this ending several different ways, none of which have a happy ending for Cam or Auburn.

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I can see this ending several different ways, none of which have a happy ending for Auburn.
    Fixed it for you.

    Cam still has potential (6'6, runs like a deer, and can throw). The NFL will take care of him and his father's church. Auburn on the other hand, that ship will sink the same way USC did.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Fixed it for you.

    Cam still has potential (6'6, runs like a deer, and can throw). The NFL will take care of him and his father's church. Auburn on the other hand, that ship will sink the same way USC did.
    Given the current facts, Auburn's only real worry is losing Cam's eligibility most likely for next year because the NCAA would penalize Cam for something that happened at MSU. It's fairly likely Cam would jump ship for the NFL anyway.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Im sorry jojo but this is laughable.
    There has been zero verifiable, factual information that suggests Auburn has done anything wrong. Anonymous boogie man "recruiters" aren't compelling. Until there is verifiable information, it's inappropriate to act as if Auburn has done something wrong. That's not funny. It's fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    First of all I had always thought that Newton's connection to MSU was through Dan Mullen. I think Rogers acted upon Newton's father and his desire to get $ for Cam's services.
    Mullen's history with Cam was the impetus for MSU pursing Cam so aggressively because they saw him as much less of a risk and thus were willing to all but guarantee him the starting job. Rogers' relationship with MSU and Mullen's history is basically what would've led to the alleged Rogers ploy. Truthfully, its Mullen's relationship that makes the Rogers story about MSU more believable. It's easy to forget that coming into the season few people viewed Newton as a can't miss star quarterback. Mullen was more inclined to view him as a game changer given their history.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    When Miss. St. wouldn't pony up Newton's father went elsewhere looking for money. What is even more damning is the reports of Newton calling up MSU and telling them he is sorry but his father wanted him to go elsewhere.
    When Rogers couldn't come up with the money, they (the Newtons) looked for the best opportunity to step in as a starter into an offense that would allow him to build an NFL resume. Auburn was a better fit than MSU given the state of each school's programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I can see this ending several different ways, none of which have a happy ending for Cam or Auburn.
    It's starting to look less and less likely that Auburn's program will be penalized while MSU has got to be feeling the heat. It's going to come down to what a couple of MSU coaches specifically remember about a statement supposedly made by Cam's dad in a Starkville Hotel. If they remember Mr Newton asking for money, then Rogers gains more credibility but the questions MSU has to answer become much more difficult. If they don't recollect details of the very vague, paraphrased question Rogers says Mr Newton posed, then MSU has less to answer for and Rogers' credibility takes a hit and likely the story centers more on Rogers.

    That said the Starkville hotel room is a road that doesn't lead south if it in fact turns out to be paved.
    Last edited by jojo; 11-12-2010 at 04:17 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #101
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Given the current facts, Auburn's only real worry is losing Cam's eligibility most likely for next year because the NCAA would penalize Cam for something that happened at MSU. It's fairly likely Cam would jump ship for the NFL anyway.
    I can assure you, this is not the case. It didn't happen at MSU. Right now, all we know is that allegedly, Newton and Rogers solicited money from Mississippi State and it wasn't paid, but that Newton wound up at Auburn because his father got "too much money to pass up."

    Auburn wouldn't be penalized for what happened at MSU. They'd be penalized for playing what turned out to be an ineligible player and the real worst-case possibility is that they are found to outright paid Newton's family to go there.

    This isn't really about Mississippi State, jojo. This is Auburn in a deep, deep mess if these allegations are true.

    I think your allegiance is clouding your perception here. You seem to be accepting most of this story, but conveniently downplaying the part about Auburn. If you accept these guys are telling the truth about their own situation, it isn't prudent to dismiss the damning circumstances being said about how it relates to Auburn.

    Again, IF these allegations are true, MSU might get in trouble, but Auburn has a real problem on its hands. I'd advise you embrace the fetal position because it won't be pretty.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I can assure you, this is not the case. It didn't happen at MSU. Right now, all we know is that allegedly, Newton and Rogers solicited money from Mississippi State and it wasn't paid, but that Newton wound up at Auburn because his father got "too much money to pass up."
    Anonymous boogie man "recruiters" aren't compelling because they aren't verifiable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Auburn wouldn't be penalized for what happened at MSU. They'd be penalized for playing what turned out to be an ineligible player and the real worst-case possibility is that they are found to outright paid Newton's family to go there.
    They haven't played an ineligible player. The NCAA knew of the allegations in January and MSU finally supplied the SEC with all that they had by July. Neither body questioned Newton's 2010 eligibility at Auburn. Auburn's compliance office has been working with them on this issue too. This hasn't just popped up in the consciousness of the SEC, the NCAA, or Auburn.

    The worst case scenario is that Auburn has paid Newton. There aren't any facts to suggest that's the case however. This is a very important point. Supposition is not fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    This isn't really about Mississippi State, jojo. This is Auburn in a deep, deep mess if these allegations are true.
    Actually this is exactly about MSU and Cam. Of course if the worst case supposition is true (i.e. Auburn out bid MSU), Auburn is in trouble. The facts don't really support such supposition at this point however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I think your allegiance is clouding your perception here. You seem to be accepting most of this story, but conveniently downplaying the part about Auburn. If you accept these guys are telling the truth about their own situation, it isn't prudent to dismiss the damning circumstances being said about how it relates to Auburn.
    This is a very important distinction-I'm focusing upon the facts. If and when the facts change, i'll modify my opinion. You're focusing upon territory that is many miles ahead of the facts as the next quoted statement again emphasizes by beginning with another if..... BTW, this is the same standard most fans of a program would adopt if their program faced something similar. In fact, I'm going out of my way to avoid supposition in an effort to avoid bias with the exception of a response to a request specifically for supposition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Again, IF these allegations are true, MSU might get in trouble, but Auburn has a real problem on its hands. I'd advise you embrace the fetal position because it won't be pretty.
    If it turns out that Auburn cheated, i'll be severely pissed. Right now something would have to dramatically change for that BIG if to become a reality.
    Last edited by jojo; 11-12-2010 at 04:41 PM.
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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Anonymous boogie man "recruiters" aren't compelling because they aren't verifiable.
    They're no longer anonymous. Many of the key players have now come out publicly. That lends a lot more credibility to the story.



    They haven't played an ineligible player. The NCAA knew of the allegations in January and MSU finally supplied the SEC with all that they had by July. Neither body questioned Newton's 2010 eligibility at Auburn. Auburn's compliance office has been working with them on this issue too. This hasn't just popped up in the consciousness of the SEC, the NCAA, or Auburn.

    The worst case scenario is that Auburn has paid Newton. There aren't any facts to suggest that's the case however. This is a very important point. Supposition is not fact.
    That's not how the NCAA operates. The NCAA can punish any institution for using a player that is declared ineligible after the fact if it had any reason to believe the player might be ineligible. The SEC was aware of these allegations before the season started and Auburn elected to continue playing Newton anyhow. It might not seem fair, but they could be culpable if Newton's amateur status is in jeopardy.

    Also, it's no longer "supposition." There is a source on the record saying Newton told the Mississippi State staff that his father said the money was too good to pass up at Auburn. That's not supposition. It's evidence, circumstantial yes, but evidence nonetheless. Supposition is just drawing a conclusion that because they were asking for money from one team, thereby they asked for it from another. While that's the likely scenario no matter how hard someone tries to suggest otherwise, we have a report saying that Newton admitted this to be the case. That cannot be ignored if we're accepting any of this story as legit.



    This is a very important distinction-I'm focusing upon the facts. If and when the facts change, i'll modify my opinion. You're focusing upon territory that is many miles ahead of the facts as the next statement again emphasizes by beginning with another if..... BTW, this is the same standard most fans of a program would adopt if their program faced something similar. In fact, I'm going out of my way to avoid supposition in an effort to avoid bias with the exception of a response to a request specifically for supposition...
    I tend to think you're going out of your way to avoid the reality rather than supposition.

    I'm giving Newton the benefit of the doubt, but it's getting much harder to do that. And like I said... if we accept that what is being alleged is true, then it becomes impractical to deny Auburn did anything wrong. And it's not all based on supposition. The quote citing a conversation with Cam is pretty damning if the rest of the story checks out.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If it turns out that Auburn cheated, i'll be severely pissed. Right now something would have to dramatically change for that BIG if to become a reality.
    I think something dramatically needs to change for that Big If not to become a reality.

    Right now Newton is an eligible player and Auburn has played him so far so there is really no reason not to play him going forward. When all is said and done I don't see a way this ends up well for Auburn. I have a feeling that Auburn will be forced to vacate all wins they had while Newton was playing QB.

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    Re: Cam Newton or his handler wanted money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    They're no longer anonymous. Many of the key players have now come out publicly. That lends a lot more credibility to the story.
    What are the names of the two recruiters who Cam supposedly apologized to while saying Auburn paid more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    That's not how the NCAA operates. The NCAA can punish any institution for using a player that is declared ineligible after the fact if it had any reason to believe the player might be ineligible. The SEC was aware of these allegations before the season started and Auburn elected to continue playing Newton anyhow. It might not seem fair, but they could be culpable if Newton's amateur status is in jeopardy.
    That's not how it works. Auburn has worked with the SEC. Why would the SEC/NCAA then turn around and punish Auburn for an impropriety committed via another program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Also, it's no longer "supposition." There is a source on the record saying Newton told the Mississippi State staff that his father said the money was too good to pass up at Auburn. That's not supposition. It's evidence, circumstantial yes, but evidence nonetheless. Supposition is just drawing a conclusion that because they were asking for money from one team, thereby they asked for it from another. While that's the likely scenario no matter how hard someone tries to suggest otherwise, we have a report saying that Newton admitted this to be the case. That cannot be ignored if we're accepting any of this story as legit.
    No one is on record with verifiable links like suggested above. You can choose to call them facts, but they are not. The NCAA won't treat that allegation as fact. It's supposition to say, if verified, then Auburn is in trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I tend to think you're going out of your way to avoid the reality rather than supposition.
    The facts at this point don't support your position. Maybe addition ones will. but they don't at this moment and there is a good likelihood that they may never...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I'm giving Newton the benefit of the doubt, but it's getting much harder to do that. And like I said... if we accept that what is being alleged is true, then it becomes impractical to deny Auburn did anything wrong. And it's not all based on supposition. The quote citing a conversation with Cam is pretty damning if the rest of the story checks out.
    Again, if's, if's, if's......
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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