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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

Voters
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  • Junior Arias

    14 18.67%
  • Tucker Barnhart

    1 1.33%
  • Drew Cisco

    1 1.33%
  • Daniel Corcino

    1 1.33%
  • Jonathan Correa

    2 2.67%
  • Danny Dorn

    1 1.33%
  • Juan Duran

    20 26.67%
  • Mariekson Gregorius

    0 0%
  • Jordan Hotchkiss

    0 0%
  • Jacob Johnson

    1 1.33%
  • Matt Klinker

    0 0%
  • Sam Lecure

    14 18.67%
  • Kris Negron

    3 4.00%
  • Felix Perez

    1 1.33%
  • Henry Rodriguez

    2 2.67%
  • Neftali Soto

    3 4.00%
  • Daryl Thompson

    1 1.33%
  • Ronald Torreyes

    10 13.33%
  • Kyle Waldrop

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    You're a tools guy. I'm more of a baseball-player guy. That said, I can easily respect your position there--particularly since you're privy to more scouting reports than most of us. But it seems like quite a reach to say that their production is "pretty similar." You're isolating the limited at-bats that Torreyes had at the same level, where--admittedly in a small sample size--he outproduced Arias by 54 points of OPS. Meanwhile, you've ignored his foreign performance. I understand that you don't put much stock in the foreign rookie leagues, and that's fine. Nonetheless, the career difference in OPS is .999 to .754. To call that "pretty similar" production is really taking liberties, IMO.
    Eh, I am a 'who projects better' guy. I am a tools and baseball player guy. The guys who watched Arias play this year thought he was one of the best three position prospects in the entire league. Torreyes didn't qualify for the list, but there is no way that they would have rated him that highly. The guy put up some darn good numbers, here and abroad. No doubt about it. But how does he project? What he can do in rookie ball doesn't have much bearing on what he will eventually do.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Junior Arias really stood out at the beginning of the rookie ball year. He finished poorly, but he made a clear impression on me. I don't think he will stay at shortstop, but then, neither will Billy Hamilton or Todd Frazier.

  4. #18
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    I went with Arias. There are a few players bunched up for me in these next few picks. Dorn among them. He is ML ready right now.

  5. #19
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    In less than a month's worth of time. And that is what I am saying. Even if it were over a full season in rookie ball, I still wouldn't pay attention between good and very good when it comes to the numbers. Tools are what matter most at those ages.
    Sometimes, though, tools can be the devil's window dressing. Comparisons in rookie ball are hard enough as is, so going by tools can really complicate matters because not only are they subjective from scout to scout, but they haven't even had nearly as much time to be scouted consistently.

    I'm not saying I disagree with you about the amount of time to judge the stats in this case, but I wouldn't take too much from the tools end either.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #20
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Numbers don't mean much at the rookie level. There is such a wide variety of competition and experience that its hard to read a lot of meaning. Some numbers might be meaningful, (Guys should probably hit at Billings), but beyond that, numbers don't start taking on much meaning until a guy reaches full season ball and even then, AA and AAA should be weighted a whole lot more than even high A.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #21
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Junior Arias really stood out at the beginning of the rookie ball year. He finished poorly, but he made a clear impression on me. I don't think he will stay at shortstop, but then, neither will Billy Hamilton or Todd Frazier.
    Honestly I don't know how you can come to that conclusion, there is no good reason to believe he won't stick at SS. Has all the necessary tools to do so and there is no reason to believe he will grow out of it in anyway.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  8. #22
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Honestly I don't know how you can come to that conclusion, there is no good reason to believe he won't stick at SS. Has all the necessary tools to do so and there is no reason to believe he will grow out of it in anyway.
    FWIW, it was posted on here recently that the Reds were likely moving Hamilton to second base. Or at least it was speculated that might happen. I have no idea the veracity of the report, but I know it was mentioned.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #23
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    FWIW, it was posted on here recently that the Reds were likely moving Hamilton to second base. Or at least it was speculated that might happen. I have no idea the veracity of the report, but I know it was mentioned.
    The last thing that was reported, which was by Jamie Ramsey a few weeks ago, was that Hamilton spent time at 2B to improve his versatility and that the Reds were going to keep playing him at both positions (SS and 2B).

  10. #24
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Didn't they also move Hamilton to 2B so Devin Lohman could get time at SS?

  11. #25
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    After an accidental vote the last time (computer problems caused me to click where I didn't want to) I cast an intended vote for Arias here. A lot of intriguing younger players. I'm looking forward to tracking some of these guys, such as Torreyes, as they move through the system.

  12. #26
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Went with Soto. It's getting a little discouraging to see some of the reds top projected bats have yet to prove they aren't complete hackers as they rise through the system. But Soto is still young and had a slight increase in walks this year as well as a large jump in slugging after getting out of Sarasota, if he can cut down his strike zone he could probably be a decent trade chip.

  13. #27
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Sam LeCure deserves this spot in my honest opinion.

  14. #28
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Sam LeCure deserves this spot in my honest opinion.
    Why?

    He pitched okay in the majors in spot starts and okay in relief in September. His ceiling is limited, as is his stuff.

    Others have higher ceilings, better stuff, and more production.

    I like a guy with a high floor as much as almost anyone, but, IMO, he'll likely never duplicate last season and was only successful through smoke, mirrors, and blind luck.

    LeCure is Brian Reith, Elizardo Ramirez, and Justin Lehr, all rolled into one small-sample package.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  15. #29
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Why?

    He pitched okay in the majors in spot starts and okay in relief in September. His ceiling is limited, as is his stuff.

    Others have higher ceilings, better stuff, and more production.

    I like a guy with a high floor as much as almost anyone, but, IMO, he'll likely never duplicate last season and was only successful through smoke, mirrors, and blind luck.

    LeCure is Brian Reith, Elizardo Ramirez, and Justin Lehr, all rolled into one small-sample package.

    Because that's my opinion.

    It may not be right but then again your opinion might not be right either.

  16. #30
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Why?

    He pitched okay in the majors in spot starts and okay in relief in September. His ceiling is limited, as is his stuff.

    Others have higher ceilings, better stuff, and more production.

    I like a guy with a high floor as much as almost anyone, but, IMO, he'll likely never duplicate last season and was only successful through smoke, mirrors, and blind luck.

    LeCure is Brian Reith, Elizardo Ramirez, and Justin Lehr, all rolled into one small-sample package.
    LeCure is absolutely better than Reith, Ramirez and Lehr. He's not going to blow anyone away, but he can absolutely be a #5 starter on some team or possibly a solid bullpen arm.

    Bill James' projections for LeCure for 2011 honestly look solid. Not amazing, but major league caliber for sure. I don't buy the, "smoke, mirrors and blind luck" claim.


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