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Thread: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

  1. #61
    Member GullyFoyle's Avatar
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    Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Orenda View Post
    So by your logic MLB should get rid of the draft. Obviously it's not fair that the worst teams get the opportunity to pick the best amateur talent. And why should the teams have all the power? Is it fair to the labor that they are forced to play for teams that they might not sign with if they were free agents?

    What if every team starts out with an 'equal' chance to succeed but a few organizations have a habit of making good decisions and in so doing they build up their business to where they may have a bit of a competitive advantage. Under your system you would punish those teams for the years of good decisions they made by re-equalizing the playing field once again.
    I apologize for jumping in on this but I'm interested in peoples responses.

    It probably needs to be clarified on what levels teams should compete and what levels they shouldn't. Should the front offices be part of what makes for a successful team? (in my mind, yes) Should where a team plays and the media market it belongs to? (no, again IMO)

    Making a level playing field, so the best front offices create the best teams, is everyones goal (I assume). The disparity in media income makes the possibility of this being a level playing field unlikely and finding a solution equally so.


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  3. #62
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Looks like the M's aren't completely sold on Justin Smoak, as they were a finalist for AGonz's services.

    The White Sox were the other finalist, and offered up a package that included Gordon Beckham. Surprised to see the Padres preferred the Red Sox package.
    Go BLUE!!!

  4. #63
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    Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Anybody who doesn't get why many have been saying that the window for the Reds closes in a couple years and that now is the time to go for it should look at this deal and think about where the Reds will be with Votto after the 2012 season.
    There's no reason to think we're going to collapse post-Votto. Chapman will be coming into his own, I imagine most of the currently too-young staff will still be together and entering their prime, Alonso (if we held onto him), Frazier, Mesoraco, Hamilton, etc. There's good players in the pipe-line who can replace that production.

    Here's a hypothetical roster in 2013 minus Votto:

    1B Alonso
    2B Hamilton
    3B Francisco/Frazier?
    SS Cozart
    CA Mesoraco/Grandal?
    LF Frazier?
    CF Stubbs
    RF Bruce

    SP Chapman
    SP Cueto
    SP Wood
    SP Bailey
    SP Volquez
    SP Leake
    SP Arroyo (final year)

    Bullpen - ? who knows, but no reason to think it's going to be a problem.

    That's looks like a pretty good team. The offense is a little week but I still see extra starters who could be leveraged into a bat or two, and of course you could add FAs along the way, not to mention we should be able to get a quality major-leage player or two in return for Votto.
    Last edited by kpresidente; 12-07-2010 at 03:56 PM.

  5. #64
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Looks like the M's aren't completely sold on Justin Smoak, as they were a finalist for AGonz's services.
    That would have to be filed under the category of rumor most incongruous with reality of the offseason.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #65
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    That would have to be filed under the category of rumor most incongruous with reality of the offseason.
    Take it up with Mr. Nightengale.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #66
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Take it up with Mr. Nightengale.
    You're the one that suggested it had meaning. BTW, when did tweets become news?
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #67
    A Pleasure to Burn Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You're the one that suggested it had meaning. BTW, when did tweets become news?
    Don't you know if it wasn't delivered hot and fresh within 30 minutes or less its free?!?!

    Wait, thats pizza.

    People need it NOWNOWNOWNOW! Therefore twitter counts as news. Lots of reporters 'break' news on twitter first.

    I'm still not a fan but lots of the kids these days love it.

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    “Everything that happens before Death is what counts.”
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  9. #68
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You're the one that suggested it had meaning. BTW, when did tweets become news?
    Welcome to 2010. You can read about Twitter here.

    If you would like to read the report that I cited, it can be found on the website here.

    You might need a computer and something called the Internet to log in.
    Go BLUE!!!

  10. #69
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Don't you know if it wasn't delivered hot and fresh within 30 minutes or less its free?!?!

    Wait, thats pizza.

    People need it NOWNOWNOWNOW! Therefore twitter counts as news. Lots of reporters 'break' news on twitter first.

    I'm still not a fan but lots of the kids these days love it.
    When I was a kid tweets thought he saw a puddy cat.... now get off of my lawn....

    Treating a tweet like fact is like wind surfing next to the cliffs of dover...great view but the landing can really suck...
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #70
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Welcome to 2010. You can read about Twitter here.

    If you would like to read the report that I cited, it can be found on the website here.

    You might need a computer and something called the Internet to log in.
    Nightengale tweeted some hard to believe statement that he didn't actually include in his USA today article.

    You said this in response to his tweet:

    Looks like the M's aren't completely sold on Justin Smoak, as they were a finalist for AGonz's services.
    Snark is best served with substance BTW....
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #71
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Snark is best served with substance BTW....
    Likewise...

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    That would have to be filed under the category of rumor most incongruous with reality of the offseason.
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #72
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Likewise...
    Which seems not like the others?

    The Ms pass up the best hitting prospect in the game to trade Lee for a first base prospect they have coveted.

    Going into the off season, it was clear the Ms would go with youth in 2011 having several position players expected to make debuts during the upcoming season-a notion that is consistent with their hiring of Eric Wedge.

    The Ms big move thus far has been to trade Jose Lopez for Chaz Roe, to nontender Rowland-Smith because he thought their offer was too low, and to sign Eric Bedard to a $1M one year deal.

    Armstrong is on record as indicating their budget will not increase over last season, a season in which their payroll shrank considerably from the previous year.

    The hot targets of the Ms during the meetings have names like Zaun, Diaz, and Valbuena.

    The Ms were in a bidding war for Adrian Gonzalez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #73
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    There's no reason to think we're going to collapse post-Votto. Chapman will be coming into his own, I imagine most of the currently too-young staff will still be together and entering their prime, Alonso (if we held onto him), Frazier, Mesoraco, Hamilton, etc. There's good players in the pipe-line who can replace that production.

    Here's a hypothetical roster in 2013 minus Votto:

    1B Alonso
    2B Hamilton
    3B Francisco/Frazier?
    SS Cozart
    CA Mesoraco/Grandal?
    LF Frazier?
    CF Stubbs
    RF Bruce

    SP Chapman
    SP Cueto
    SP Wood
    SP Bailey
    SP Volquez
    SP Leake
    SP Arroyo (final year)

    Bullpen - ? who knows, but no reason to think it's going to be a problem.

    That's looks like a pretty good team. The offense is a little week but I still see extra starters who could be leveraged into a bat or two, and of course you could add FAs along the way, not to mention we should be able to get a quality major-leage player or two in return for Votto.
    Pitching staff looks pretty good but Volquez and Cueto may have priced themselves out of town. Stubbs and Bruce I'll give ya assuming the Reds can still afford them (Votto won't be the only 8 figure salary by then).
    Mesoraco could be pretty good. The rest of those guys are big drop-offs from the guys already playing those spots. Hamilton is the guy most likely to be able to replace Phillips, and I hope he's ready by 2013, but I'm guessing late 2014 and a couple more years struggling after that before he can fill Phillips shoes. Don't really like the guys you show for 3B and LF. Cozart will probably be serviceable as a starting SS, but he won't be a star and may need a LH counterpart if his high minors splits don't change soon. Wonder if Chapman ever finds his way back to the rotation. He seems to have fallen into the Joba syndrome. Hasn't built enough innings or gotten enough work on the secondary stuff to be viable in a contending rotation and is too good to send to AAA to get him positioned to start.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  15. #74
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Which seems not like the others?
    The Ms were in a bidding war for Adrian Gonzalez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
    I'm not so sure that the snark is justified. Wouldn't a Gonzalez deal have been exactly like last year's deal for Lee (trade prospects for a star FA-to-be, knowing that you can flip him at the deadline)?

    Perhaps the rumor was fabricated, perhaps not -- but it's not outside the Mariners' FO MO, IMO. (Yes, I had to type it that way.)

  16. #75
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    Re: Unofficially official: Adrian Gonzalez now a Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by backbencher View Post
    I'm not so sure that the snark is justified. Wouldn't a Gonzalez deal have been exactly like last year's deal for Lee (trade prospects for a star FA-to-be, knowing that you can flip him at the deadline)?

    Perhaps the rumor was fabricated, perhaps not -- but it's not outside the Mariners' FO MO, IMO. (Yes, I had to type it that way.)
    But the Lee acquisition was made as part of a dice roll that they could sneak into the playoffs with a true talent 85 win team.

    That's not the case this season.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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