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Thread: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

  1. #61
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Drew Stubbs made an out 50% of the time he bunted last year. He isn't very good at it. It's almost like Adam Dunn.... people want to turn him into something he isn't rather than embrace what he is.
    It doesn't mean that he can't get better at it.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    It doesn't mean that he can't get better at it.
    Perhaps, perhaps not. But people have been talking as if it's a simple path for him to improving his game. It isn't.
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Drew Stubbs made an out 50% of the time he bunted last year. He isn't very good at it. It's almost like Adam Dunn.... people want to turn him into something he isn't rather than embrace what he is.
    And Drew Stubbs made an out about 74% of the time overall

    On a serious note, I would like to see Stubbs get better at bunting regardless of where he hits in the order. Simply because it becomes another weapon, especially if he is leading off an inning and we really need a baserunner. In those scenarios, if he can lay down a bunt successfully at a 50+% clip then that is very valuable.
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  5. #64
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    A 1-0 lead is nice, but I would rather see 8-10 HR's with guys on base and 12-15 solo shots than 20 solo shots and 5 multi run HR's.

    Merry Christmas to you and yours. As long as the Reds are winning, the arguing is plenty fun!
    This is ridiculous. The lead off hitter only hits leadoff once per game. There is nothing that says the other 3 or 4 times he bats in the game that there will not be people on base. As a matter of fact anytime the 8th hitter in lineup gets on the pitchers bunt him over to scoring position - hence you'd theoretically like someone batting first who has ability to drive in runs.

    If a guy (1) gets on base at a .370 clip, (2) has speed to score from first on a double and (3) can consistently go first to third on a single then I don't care if he has "too much" power. I want the guy leading off who does those three things and any power is just a bonus.
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  6. #65
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    By the way, that is not advocating Stubbs leading off - just that his power is not the reason why I don't like him there. I don't like him there because he doesn't get on base at .370 clip.

    He might have that ability - but last year he pressed when leading off and was comfortable batting lower in lineup, so for now I'd rather have him lower.
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  7. #66
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    This is ridiculous. The lead off hitter only hits leadoff once per game. There is nothing that says the other 3 or 4 times he bats in the game that there will not be people on base. As a matter of fact anytime the 8th hitter in lineup gets on the pitchers bunt him over to scoring position - hence you'd theoretically like someone batting first who has ability to drive in runs.

    If a guy (1) gets on base at a .370 clip, (2) has speed to score from first on a double and (3) can consistently go first to third on a single then I don't care if he has "too much" power. I want the guy leading off who does those three things and any power is just a bonus.
    Batting in front of what should eb the two worst guys at getting on base in your lineup (#8 and the pitcher) likely means you are not going to get nearly the same chances to use your power to do damage as you would batting 2-7.

    As for the .370 clip.... I don't know, and I don't want to look, but does anyone know who led off last year in baseball who had a .370 OBP? Ichiro? Who else?

  8. #67
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    In order for him to create the threat that he "might bunt at any time" he will have to bunt a lot. I think that would be counterproductive. He should try to hone his skill (and I think he has worked at it) so that when an opportunity arises -- easy pitcher to bunt off, 3rd baseman playing back or weak at defending bunts -- he can lay one down with a reasonable shot at success. But that should be the extent of it, IMO.
    I don't really buy this. Even if he doesn't bunt a lot doesn't mean he can't become a good bunter. If you have that ability it helps out. If you have a reputation in the league of being a good bunter it helps. You don't necessarily mean he bunts a lot.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As for the .370 clip.... I don't know, and I don't want to look, but does anyone know who led off last year in baseball who had a .370 OBP? Ichiro? Who else?
    Just Furcal, and he was injured most of the year.
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Even if he doesn't bunt a lot doesn't mean he can't become a good bunter. If you have that ability it helps out. If you have a reputation in the league of being a good bunter it helps. You don't necessarily mean he bunts a lot.
    Just because Stubbs is fast doesn't mean he can become a good bunter. It's a logical fallacy.

    Height and handedness -- both are working against him. Folks need to recognize that and acknowledge that no matter how hard Stubbs works at it, he may never be able to make bunting a key cog in his offensive game. In fact, the odds are against him.
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  11. #70
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Just because Stubbs is fast doesn't mean he can become a good bunter. It's a logical fallacy.


    Quoted for truth. Most of the players you saw on the list above that led the league in bunt hits were fast like Drew Stubbs, but were lower SLG% guys. Drew Stubbs is not that type of player and never has been as far as I can remember following him.
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  12. #71
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Being fast is a huge advantage for someone learning to bunt for a hit. That doesn't mean Stubbs can learn. Nothing illogical about that.

  13. #72
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Being fast is a huge advantage for someone learning to bunt for a hit.
    Being fast has absolutely nothing to do with being able to lay down a good bunt. And no matter how fast you are, you're going to have a hard time beating out a bad bunt, especially if you're righthanded.
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  14. #73
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Being fast has absolutely nothing to do with being able to lay down a good bunt. And no matter how fast you are, you're going to have a hard time beating out a bad bunt, especially if you're righthanded.
    Being fast helps you reach base if you are bunting for a hit.

    Being fast does not make you a better bunter. No one said that.

  15. #74
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Being fast helps you reach base if you are bunting for a hit.
    if you are a good bunter...

    I'm not disagreeing with you, or anyone else that feels that Drew Stubbs could work on his bunting. Heck, everyone could afford to work on their bunting, it's one of the fundamentals of the game. What my position is, is that Drew Stubbs has never been the type of guy to attempt 20-30 base hit bunts a year in his professional or even amateur career as far as I know. Drew Stubbs is a young player and has some things to work on overall offensively. I think last year he took a step forward. I would hate to throw a new skill at him and force him to learn it just because he's fast. Yes, he can work on it, but no, I don't want him putting 20-30 bunts down a year. I feel that might actually make him regress offensively.
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  16. #75
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Lead Off Hitter

    When having to choose concerning bunting, I'd rather be fast than good.
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