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Thread: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

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    Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Looking over his overall numbers, I just don't see how he is that much better then what the Reds already have. Yes he had the one outstanding season where he won the Cy Young, but looking at his overall numbers;

    60 67 .472 3.82

    I see a good pitcher, but not a great pitcher. Add into that he is already at 11 million owed per season, I just can't figure out what people see in him that is THAT much better then what we have. I mean if you are going to deal away significant talent, isn't that done to improve areas where you are weak in?

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    Looking over his overall numbers, I just don't see how he is that much better then what the Reds already have. Yes he had the one outstanding season where he won the Cy Young, but looking at his overall numbers;

    60 67 .472 3.82

    I see a good pitcher, but not a great pitcher. Add into that he is already at 11 million owed per season, I just can't figure out what people see in him that is THAT much better then what we have. I mean if you are going to deal away significant talent, isn't that done to improve areas where you are weak in?
    You're talking about Grienke...

    And yeah the Royals dreadful Offense and Defense had nothing to do with his over all numbers...

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    You're talking about Grienke...

    And yeah the Royals dreadful Offense and Defense had nothing to do with his over all numbers...
    Wait, he did have his one great season, did KC get good for one season?

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    Wait, he did have his one great season, did KC get good for one season?
    Dude would have won 24 games if not for that Dreadful team...

    Steve Carlton won 27 Games for the Phillies losing team...

    In Carlton's first season with Philadelphia, he led the league in wins (27), complete games (30), strikeouts (310), and ERA (1.97), despite playing for a team whose final record was 59-97

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Dude would have won 24 games if not for that Dreadful team...

    Steve Carlton won 27 Games for the Phillies losing team...

    In Carlton's first season with Philadelphia, he led the league in wins (27), complete games (30), strikeouts (310), and ERA (1.97), despite playing for a team whose final record was 59-97
    What does what Carlton did have anything to do with Grienke? Again, if Grienke is so good, why only the 1 great season? He was on the same team and yet his performance levels have been all over the place...

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    What does what Carlton did have anything to do with Grienke? Again, if Grienke is so good, why only the 1 great season? He was on the same team and yet his performance levels have been all over the place...
    You asked how the Royals did that year and if they got better because of it.
    I showed you another team who had a Cy Young Winner on a losing team...

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    You asked how the Royals did that year and if they got better because of it.
    I showed you another team who had a Cy Young Winner on a losing team...
    the present Cy Young winner who had either a losing record or close to it played on a losing team in the AL. What is your point? Great pitchers are great no matter the team, Grienke has not been great his entire career, just one season.

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    the present Cy Young winner who had either a losing record or close to it played on a losing team in the AL. What is your point? Great pitchers are great no matter the team, Grienke has not been great his entire career, just one season.
    That was Leftys first season in Philly bud...

    And that was your point... How did the team do? Not Mine... remember what you're typing here...

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    That was Leftys first season in Philly bud...

    And that was your point... How did the team do? Not Mine... remember what you're typing here...
    No my view on Grienke is simple, i believe people have overvalued him off of one great season. Look at his overall numbers and he isn't a great pitcher. Look at Carlton's before numbers before that 27 win season with the Phils and even after it, his numbers leap off the page, Grienke's doesn't. It's not that Greinke is not a good pitcher, but he is not great.

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    No my view on Grienke is simple, i believe people have overvalued him off of one great season. Look at his overall numbers and he isn't a great pitcher. Look at Carlton's before numbers before that 27 win season with the Phils and even after it, his numbers leap off the page, Grienke's doesn't. It's not that Greinke is not a good pitcher, but he is not great.
    Would Greinke improve the Reds rotation if the Reds "had" acquired him?

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Would Greinke improve the Reds rotation if the Reds "had" acquired him?
    not enough to off set the loss of players it would have cost us or at the cost of development of a Leake or Wood. plus you add payroll which would have hurt our ability to hopefully add maybe a quality LF. So no i don't see improving the team overall and that is what you have to look at. I don't believe the Brewers are overall better now that they have him then they were before they got him.

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    had we gotten Grienke I would see him in the 3 spot, behind Bronson in the 1 spot, Cueto in the 2 spot, Grienke in the 3 spot, Wood in the 4 spot and Leake in the 5 spot.

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    He won Cy Young for one of the worst teams in baseball, I think you're looking way too much into it. Greinke is a great pitcher and would be our #1.
    Follow me on twitter @EricLilly7

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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Is Carlton available ?
    "...kicks and deals, and it's right down Broadway"
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    Re: Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    had we gotten Grienke I would see him in the 3 spot, behind Bronson in the 1 spot, Cueto in the 2 spot, Grienke in the 3 spot, Wood in the 4 spot and Leake in the 5 spot.
    LOL. you obv know more than top baseball execs.


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