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Thread: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

  1. #16
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    That wasn't true of Drew Stubbs. It wasn't true of Jay Bruce when he was struggling. I continue to argue that Baker has shown himself incredibly patient with our youngsters. Presumably by the end of Baker's career here, the myths will have fallen by the wayside.
    Im talking about when a rookie is trying to make the team, in Stubbs case it took him a while to let go of Tavares, Bruce was stuck behind Jr, Im not talking about what he does with a rookie that is being developed, Im only saying when he's picking between a rookie vs veteran to make his opening day lineup, he picks the veteran, I dont have a problem with that its his team, no need to get me mixed up with the other Baker bashers, Im not one of those guys

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Infielders: Votto, Phillips, Janish, Rolen, Cairo, Cozart
    Outfielders: Bruce, Stubbs, Gomes, Heisey
    Catchers: Hernandez, Hanigan
    That's 12 with Francisco, Alonso, Valaika, and possibly a true outfielder (Edmonds?) competing for a spot. Valaika's chances of making the team out of ST seem remote to me.

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    Im talking about when a rookie is trying to make the team, in Stubbs case it took him a while to let go of Tavares, Bruce was stuck behind Jr, Im not talking about what he does with a rookie that is being developed, Im only saying when he's picking between a rookie vs veteran to make his opening day lineup, he picks the veteran, I dont have a problem with that its his team, no need to get me mixed up with the other Baker bashers, Im not one of those guys
    They started Stubbs before most people thought he was ready.

    Bruce started as soon as he came up.

    Same for Votto.

    In his Red tenure, Baker plays rookies who have track records of success and are (or seem to be) the "future" of the Cincinnati franchise.

    As to pitchers, Baker seems also to have learned that lesson fairly well, though he might have pushed Bailey a bit too far at the end of 2009. He also babied Leake this year in spite of being in a pennant race.
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    I question that Valaika is out of options. Perhaps someone can clarify this. I also agree with others that the Reds would not want to see CV play SS other than in an emergency.

    Thus, one strategy could be to keep CV on the active roster, then option him to AAA and call up Cozart in the event that Janish is unable to play for several days, but is short of needing the DL. That would permit Cozart to play every day at AAA until needed.

    My hunch is that the Reds would prefer to keep a legitimate backup SS on the active roster in order to give Janish an occasional day off. I think the decision may hinge on how close to ML ready Cozart is seen to be. It could be the end of spring training before the solution becomes apparent. Lots of time for speculation and opinions before then.

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    bc the guy has been playing 2nd in the minors means now that he is in the majors he should move positions. cool thread!

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    They started Stubbs before most people thought he was ready.

    Bruce started as soon as he came up.

    Same for Votto.

    In his Red tenure, Baker plays rookies who have track records of success and are (or seem to be) the "future" of the Cincinnati franchise.

    As to pitchers, Baker seems also to have learned that lesson fairly well, though he might have pushed Bailey a bit too far at the end of 2009. He also babied Leake this year in spite of being in a pennant race.
    I agree but fans everywhere especially here were going nuts over Baker sticking with Tavares and wanting Jr off the team ASAP so that Bruce could play, I mention it and somehow Im bashing Baker and not looking at facts, trust me Im not a Baker basher and never have been

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    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Infielders: Votto, Phillips, Janish, Rolen, Cairo, Cozart
    Outfielders: Bruce, Stubbs, Gomes, Heisey
    Catchers: Hernandez, Hanigan
    That's 12 with Francisco, Alonso, Valaika, and possibly a true outfielder (Edmonds?) competing for a spot. Valaika's chances of making the team out of ST seem remote to me.
    If Chrissy can play SS at all, I take him over Cozart. Also, I add Barton as a 5th OF and go with the more normal 13 batters, 12 pitchers (5 SP, 7 RP).

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    They started Stubbs before most people thought he was ready.

    Bruce started as soon as he came up.

    Same for Votto.

    In his Red tenure, Baker plays rookies who have track records of success and are (or seem to be) the "future" of the Cincinnati franchise.

    As to pitchers, Baker seems also to have learned that lesson fairly well, though he might have pushed Bailey a bit too far at the end of 2009. He also babied Leake this year in spite of being in a pennant race.
    Votto didn't start as soon as he came up. He was behind Scott Hatteberg to start the 08 season
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Votto didn't start as soon as he came up. He was behind Scott Hatteberg to start the 08 season
    He was and he wasn't. He started games 2, 4, 6 and 8. Backed up games 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 10. Then was the started the rest of the way.

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    As far as I can tell, at least based upon his tenure with the Reds, Dusty likes to protect his players as much as possible. That includes keeping a guy on the DL or out of the lineup a few extra days to make sure they're really 100%, not throwing rookies or young players into the fire, letting guys ride out slumps, or sitting them for a few days to clear their head. In a game where 1 out of 3 is considerred a success, and "mental make-up" if you will plays such a huge role, it seems, to me anyways, that Dusty is out to protect his players, vet and young, as much as possible.

    By nature, fans are much more knee-jerked reactionary. If a manager acted that way for too long, they'd wear out their welcome with the players. The players all seem to love Dusty, and I think its easy to see why. He doesn't throw them under the bus, he doesn't put them in positions too often where they can't succeed, he's willing to give a guy a few more chances than they probably deserve to prove themselves. I think Dusty has handled not only Bruce, Votto & Stubbs with great ease, but also some of the veterans like Rhodes & Coco, or a guy like Phillips who can get a bit moody at times.

    I doubt Valiaka gets much more than a bench role, Dusty or no dusty. He's not going to start over Phillips at 2nd too often, he's not ideal at SS (or so his minor league time at 2b seems to say), Rolen is going to get the nod at 3b more often than not. When Rolen rests, then I hope the plan is to have Francisco start in his place, alternating b/w 3b once or twice a week, and LF (unless another left fielder is brought in) 2-3x a week. Not much room for Valiaka in my book. Not really his fault, I like what he did in the minors, but I'd rather have Janish's glove out there, and cozart in reserve (or vice versa) than Valiaka at SS every day. There's really no where for him to play outside of an occasional start and a pinch hit appearance 4 times a week.

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    As far as I can tell, at least based upon his tenure with the Reds, Dusty likes to protect his players as much as possible. That includes keeping a guy on the DL or out of the lineup a few extra days to make sure they're really 100%, not throwing rookies or young players into the fire, letting guys ride out slumps, or sitting them for a few days to clear their head. In a game where 1 out of 3 is considerred a success, and "mental make-up" if you will plays such a huge role, it seems, to me anyways, that Dusty is out to protect his players, vet and young, as much as possible.

    By nature, fans are much more knee-jerked reactionary. If a manager acted that way for too long, they'd wear out their welcome with the players. The players all seem to love Dusty, and I think its easy to see why. He doesn't throw them under the bus, he doesn't put them in positions too often where they can't succeed, he's willing to give a guy a few more chances than they probably deserve to prove themselves. I think Dusty has handled not only Bruce, Votto & Stubbs with great ease, but also some of the veterans like Rhodes & Coco, or a guy like Phillips who can get a bit moody at times.

    I doubt Valiaka gets much more than a bench role, Dusty or no dusty. He's not going to start over Phillips at 2nd too often, he's not ideal at SS (or so his minor league time at 2b seems to say), Rolen is going to get the nod at 3b more often than not. When Rolen rests, then I hope the plan is to have Francisco start in his place, alternating b/w 3b once or twice a week, and LF (unless another left fielder is brought in) 2-3x a week. Not much room for Valiaka in my book. Not really his fault, I like what he did in the minors, but I'd rather have Janish's glove out there, and cozart in reserve (or vice versa) than Valiaka at SS every day. There's really no where for him to play outside of an occasional start and a pinch hit appearance 4 times a week.
    I agree 100%, this is basically what I was saying and some folks around here just took it the wrong way they seem to think Im bashing Dusty which is so far from the truth it aint funny

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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    I agree 100%, this is basically what I was saying and some folks around here just took it the wrong way they seem to think Im bashing Dusty which is so far from the truth it aint funny
    Whatever, you bashed Dusty like you were Mark McGwire back in the day...
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    With Phillips potentially walking after next year they need to start grooming his replacement. Seems to me that Valaika has the inside track on that for 2012. Would like to see him tested this year in a bench role the way Heisey was last year. Can he hold his own with the stick at the major league level or not? On the other hand if Frazier beats him out, so be it. They can test Frazier instead. I think one of them needs to be the 5th bench guy so we can see what they're capable of.

  15. #29
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    With Phillips potentially walking after next year they need to start grooming his replacement. Seems to me that Valaika has the inside track on that for 2012. Would like to see him tested this year in a bench role the way Heisey was last year. Can he hold his own with the stick at the major league level or not? On the other hand if Frazier beats him out, so be it. They can test Frazier instead. I think one of them needs to be the 5th bench guy so we can see what they're capable of.
    I honestly believe that even if Phillips walks, Valaika might find himself behind Cozart/Negron for second base in 2012 unless he does real strong things this season.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I honestly believe that even if Phillips walks, Valaika might find himself behind Cozart/Negron for second base in 2012 unless he does real strong things this season.
    Agreed, Cozart I think fits in perfectly there. Sure would love to have him as the everyday SS but he is probably an even better fit at 2B, his arm will play up a bit better there. Not that it's a bad arm it's plenty good enough for SS but if we could come up with a SS I think Cozart helps ease the loss of BP defensively speaking while still giving us some of the offense BP gives us. If the Janish experiment works out I think we will definitely see this.
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