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  1. #1
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    People need to take a HUGE breath

    All I keep reading is how the Reds are sitting on their hands and doing nothing to improve their team and how everyone else in the Central has either made major moves or will make major moves and so on. People, please, put down the rope and relax. Lets remember that outside of Votto and maybe Rolen, most of the starting Reds last year did not play up to their expected abilities. So there is no reason to think that Bruce, Stubbs, Hannigan and phillips won't put up better numbers next season. Right now we have one glaring weak spot and that is LF, and yes I hope Walt does address it, but what if that addressing comes in the form of Chris Heisey or Todd Frazier? I see no reason why Votto can't put up similar numbers, he sure has enough motiviation to do so. Our pitching staff is only going to get better. This year we get a full year of Wood and Leake will be able to go more innings.

    The only team in the central that has done anything are the Brewers, a team that was 14 games back will have a new manager this year and a very close eye on it because if they don't get started fast watch for some major talent to be traded by the trading deadline. No other team has done anything close to improving themselves that much to pass the Reds, so please, relax, enjoy the HSL and remember Rome wasn't built in a day.

  2. #2
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    All I keep reading is how the Reds are sitting on their hands and doing nothing to improve their team and how everyone else in the Central has either made major moves or will make major moves and so on. People, please, put down the rope and relax. Lets remember that outside of Votto and maybe Rolen, most of the starting Reds last year did not play up to their expected abilities. So there is no reason to think that Bruce, Stubbs, Hannigan and phillips won't put up better numbers next season. Right now we have one glaring weak spot and that is LF, and yes I hope Walt does address it, but what if that addressing comes in the form of Chris Heisey or Todd Frazier? I see no reason why Votto can't put up similar numbers, he sure has enough motiviation to do so. Our pitching staff is only going to get better. This year we get a full year of Wood and Leake will be able to go more innings.

    The only team in the central that has done anything are the Brewers, a team that was 14 games back will have a new manager this year and a very close eye on it because if they don't get started fast watch for some major talent to be traded by the trading deadline. No other team has done anything close to improving themselves that much to pass the Reds, so please, relax, enjoy the HSL and remember Rome wasn't built in a day.
    And they brought in 23 Wins

  3. #3
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    And they brought in 23 Wins
    How did they bring in 23 wins? They brought in 2 starting pitchers who could fall flat on their faces, they brought in a RP, wow 1 change in what was one of the worse pen's in baseball. Really, if you think that adding those 3 players is that big then more power to you...

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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    How did they bring in 23 wins? They brought in 2 starting pitchers who could fall flat on their faces, they brought in a RP, wow 1 change in what was one of the worse pen's in baseball. Really, if you think that adding those 3 players is that big then more power to you...
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6427

    13 Wins

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5883

    10 Wins

    Oh and I guess I was wrong... It was 25 wins if ya count Saito...

    My Bad.

  5. #5
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6427

    13 Wins

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5883

    10 Wins

    Oh and I guess I was wrong... It was 25 wins if ya count Saito...

    My Bad.
    you cant argue logic with retards. they are illogical.

  6. #6
    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6427

    13 Wins

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5883

    10 Wins

    Oh and I guess I was wrong... It was 25 wins if ya count Saito...

    My Bad.
    Well if that isn't a horrible way to look at how many wins were possibly added to the Brewers record.

    According to http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/112441674.html
    The additions of Greinke and Marcum will give Roenicke many options as to how to align his starting rotation. The general thinking is that Greinke, Gallardo and Marcum will line up in some fashion as the top three, with left-handers Randy Wolf and Chris Narveson at the bottom of pack.
    I will try and look at this in terms of win projects based off the last season, while taking into account what was replaced. Brewers starters accounted for a record of 52-56. Of the three brewers expected to to stay in the rotation, they went a combined 12-9 + 13-12 + 14-7 = 39-28. So if we go by saying how many wins were "added" to the team. Then you could replace the other 2 spots in the rotation, which went a combined 13-28 with the combined record of Greinke and Marcum which was 10-14 and 13-8 respectively which is 23-22, effectively "adding" 10 wins only assuming they are replacing the bottom 2 pitchers in the rotation.

    Even this is not a satisfactory way to access what was added to the starting rotation of the brewers lineup, since so many things factor into win numbers than just the starting pitcher. Also, don't even bother quoting how many wins Saito "adds" to the Brewers, because if wins aren't a good way to gauge the impact a starting pitcher has, then wins for a reliever are about 10 times as useless as that. We will just count Saito as one good addition to a very bad bullpen.

    It better to look at it in terms of runs allowed, although that is not ideal because there are still a lot of factors that go into it but it is easy to analyze, and we will look at the stats with only respect to last year. The Brewers starters accounted for a 4.65 ERA, in 921 innings. When you consider the contributions from the three starters expected to remain in the Brewers rotation, the other 2 spots in the rotation accounted for 69 starts, 352 IP, and a 5.21 ERA. When you put Marcum and Greinke into this rotation, along with the remaining starts left over using these average stats for the "6th starter spot" for any spots starts needed due to injury, the team ERA goes down to 4.17 and would have ranked tied for 16th with the Twins and Red Sox. For reference the Reds starting pitchers ERA was 4.05 (13th) last season and the Cardinals was 3.50 (2nd).

    Numbers:
    Code:
    	2010	Wolf	Gallar	Narve	Other	Grein	Marc	Spot Starts	NewRotation
    starts	162	34	31	28	69	33	31	5		162
    IP	921	216	185	168	352	220	195	26		1010
    ERA	4.65	4.17	3.84	4.99	5.21	4.17	3.64	5.21		4.17
    For next season I would predict Marcum staying consistent in his ERA around 3.5-4.00, and I would possibly predict Greinke somewhere in the 4.00 range +/- .5 since I don't want to look at how much more hitters friendly the NL central is compared to the AL central. So, based off this limited evaluation of what the Brewers are replacing, you will probably see them run about middle of the pack in terms of runs allowed, maybe slightly better depending on injuries and performance of the rotation, since there is a big dropoff when it comes to what replaces any of those startes since the Brewers lack the depth that the Reds have in the starting rotation.

  7. #7
    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Just a little follow up to analyze what wins would have been added had Greinke and Marcum been pitching for the Brewers last season (since I used last years stats, thats what it pretty much is). With the new starters stats of 4.17 ERA and 1010 innings, this will affect the stats of the bullpen as well. With the starters posting more innings this will in turn affect the innings that the bullpen will be required to work. Also assuming a lower workload for the bullpen it can be assumed that the better arms in the pen won't be overused and the not so good arms in the pen will not have to be put into tough situations, allowing their stats to improve slightly.

    In 2010 the Brewers bullpen posted a 4.48 ERA over 518 innings, with my projected stats for the "new" Brewers rotation, the bullpen would only be required to work 429 innings and I will say that the bullpen will see a slight improvement and post a 4.23 ERA. Taking these stats into account the total team ERA will be lowered to 4.19 from 4.59.

    Now I will look at the effect this would have on Runs allowed. Last season the Brewers had 70 unearned runs, and since I am using the same defense that should stay the same. Based off the new team ERA of 4.19, the earned runs allowed would be lowered to 679. So the total runs allowed would come out to 749. With Milwaukee scoring 750 runs last season and using the Pythag, I would expect them to have a 50% win percentage. This would end up 81-81 versus the 77-85 they posted last season, so it could be expected that adding these 2 pitchers would have added a total of 4 wins to the Brewers team last season. The Brewers did perform 2 wins better than their expected Pythag last season so you could additionally add those 2 wins onto this hypothetical record and the wins added would increase to 6.

  8. #8
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6427

    13 Wins

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5883

    10 Wins

    Oh and I guess I was wrong... It was 25 wins if ya count Saito...

    My Bad.
    That was last year, on different teams in different leagues.

  9. #9
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    And they brought in 23 Wins
    They also brought in 22 losses...just sayin'

  10. #10
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Everyone clamoring for moves seems to forget that young players espicially ones that are entering their prime are than likely to improve not regress.

    Stubbs, Bruce, Cueto, Bailey, Wood, Leake, Heisey, Chapman, Bray, and Francisco are canidates to improve due to youth so even if only half of them improve as hoped/expected it would still be an overall net gain for the team.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

  11. #11
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    I took a huge breath and I still feel bad about the Reds chances.

  12. #12
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Take another. Maybe you'll feel better when they're in Arizona and Heisey, Frazier, Fransisco and Alonzo are knocking the cover off the ball in spring games and forcing Dusty to think differently about left field. And Bailey, Leake, Wood, and Volquez are looking dominant. We are the Minnesota Twins of the NL Central. We'll be there in the end every year with a chance to win.

  13. #13
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    Take another. Maybe you'll feel better when they're in Arizona and Heisey, Frazier, Fransisco and Alonzo are knocking the cover off the ball in spring games and forcing Dusty to think differently about left field. And Bailey, Leake, Wood, and Volquez are looking dominant. We are the Minnesota Twins of the NL Central. We'll be there in the end every year with a chance to win.
    Okay, I'm semi-kidding.

    The glass half full people are counting on improvement from all the young guys on the team. I listened to Marty on the HSL last night and really thinks the starting pitching will be even better this year as these young guys continue to mature. They also look at how Bruce and Stubbs really emerged in the second half last year, and expect more of the same.

    I will agree that if all of them continue to improve, this team should win the Central again.

    But I'm not going to discount or underestimate the moves made by the Brewers. Nor am I gonna underestimate the Cardinals starting pitching. I think the Cards organization/players really has a bug up their you know what about how last year ended. I look for them to hit next season hard.

    Back to the Reds. If Votto gets a 1 year arbitration deal, he will be playing for arbitration contract again. Same for alot of these young guys. Phillips is in a contract season. Could really have these guys working and pushing themselves hard for those big paychecks.

  14. #14
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Okay, I'm semi-kidding.

    The glass half full people are counting on improvement from all the young guys on the team. I listened to Marty on the HSL last night and really thinks the starting pitching will be even better this year as these young guys continue to mature. They also look at how Bruce and Stubbs really emerged in the second half last year, and expect more of the same.

    I will agree that if all of them continue to improve, this team should win the Central again.

    But I'm not going to discount or underestimate the moves made by the Brewers. Nor am I gonna underestimate the Cardinals starting pitching. I think the Cards organization/players really has a bug up their you know what about how last year ended. I look for them to hit next season hard.

    Back to the Reds. If Votto gets a 1 year arbitration deal, he will be playing for arbitration contract again. Same for alot of these young guys. Phillips is in a contract season. Could really have these guys working and pushing themselves hard for those big paychecks.
    The Cards really don't scare me, outside of Carpenter who is getting older and has mental issues and injury issues, Wainwright and Albert, who else really scares you on that team...surprise team next year will be the Stros...

  15. #15
    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: People need to take a HUGE breath

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    The Cards really don't scare me, outside of Carpenter who is getting older and has mental issues and injury issues, Wainwright and Albert, who else really scares you on that team...surprise team next year will be the Stros...
    Agreed on Carpenter, I think if he gets into a bad start in the first half you might see a mental collapse of epic proportions. If he is outperformed by Wainwright and Garcia again I don't know if he could handle being the #3 in the rotation with that ego of his. And of course, how would he explain to his son that he is the third starter now .


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