Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Imagine the Outrage

  1. #1
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,668

    Imagine the Outrage

    I replay seasons on Strat-O-Matic using actual lineups. Am currently playing 1954 and get to May 4 & 5, Philadelphia @ St. Louis. Because I play all the games, there is some time lag between games for any two teams. Robin Roberts comes up as the starter on May 5, which puzzled me because I could have swore he just completed the prior game on about 150 pitches (Strat does an estimated pitch count). So I go to the actual boxes and see that Roberts left the game after only 2 innings on May 4, faced 12 batters, so they brought him back the next day and he pitched a complete game!

    Now, trust me, I do not condone that and get all Nolan Ryan on you to start talking about how tough the old timers were, but I was just thinking about what the media and internet would do with a manager that made such a decision in today's game. Obviously, Roberts was a different animal, pitching effectively until he was 39, but still, that had to be one sore arm after the game on May 5th.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    6 months of heartbreak Bob Borkowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Aurora, IN
    Posts
    15,049

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Robin Roberts was a hoss, no doubt about it. He often pitched with only 2 days rest between starts.

  4. #3
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Cambridge, OH
    Posts
    19,455

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Try this one on for size--Walter Johnson pitched 30 scoreless innings and three complete-game shutouts over Labor Day Weekend in 1908 at New York!


    Friday, September 4: Johnson pitched a five-hit shutout as Washington defeated New York, 3-0.

    Saturday, September 5: Johnson then turned around and pitched a three-hit shutout the very next day, as Washington beat New York, 6-0.

    Monday, September 7: New York state law prohibited sporting events on Sunday, so both clubs had September 6 off. But they played a Labor Day doubleheader on Monday. Johnson pitched a two-hit shutout in Game 1, as Washington won, 4-0. Johnson also started Game 2, pitching three shutout innings before leaving the game after being hit by a pitch. Washington completed the sweep by winning Game 2, 9-3. Tom Hughes got the win in relief.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  5. #4
    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Oxford, OH
    Posts
    2,282

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    @ Big Klu- wow. Was he the "pitcher" on the team, as in "you're the first baseman, you're our second baseman, you're the pitcher...?"

    320
    I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou

  6. #5
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,685

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    That's because relief pitchers back then were wimps. Now they're finally worth something. You can thank Sparky Anderson for that.

  7. #6
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,835

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    @ Big Klu- wow. Was he the "pitcher" on the team, as in "you're the first baseman, you're our second baseman, you're the pitcher...?"

    320
    Back in that day teams often leveraged starters at a higher rate, saving the top guys for the top clubs and often doubling up in some instances. In the case of the 08 Nats Johnson was second on the team in starts and IP, Tom Hughs was first with 43 games appeared in (31 as a starter) Johnson was in 36 (30 as a starter) together they threw 38% of the teams innings.

    In 1908 Ed Walsh appeared in 69 games, started 49 games had 42 complete games, 6 saves and finished 15 games as a reliever, he pitched 464 innings, 33.8% of the teams innings.

  8. #7
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,854

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    The attitude about starting pitchers back then was the same as how we're used to thinking about quarterbacks -- if a guy started a game, he was expected to finish it, barring unusual circumstances. That meant a pitcher had to pace himself. Now, with power-filled lineups and power-arm-filled bullpens, the starter generally goes max effort until he's out of gas.
    Not all who wander are lost

  9. #8
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,834

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    MY favorite display of two starting pitchers who refused to come out is a 1963 duel between Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn. Marichal won the game 1-0 when Willie Mays hit a home run off of Spahn in the bottom of the 16th inning.
    Marichal repeatedly begged Giants manager Alvin Dark to leave him in the game, arguing that if the 42 year old Spahn could keep pitching then the 25 year old Marichal could do so. In the end Marichal had a 16 inning shutout while Spahn took the loss after pitching 15 shutout innings.
    I'd love to know what the pitch counts were for that game.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  10. #9
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,835

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    MY favorite display of two starting pitchers who refused to come out is a 1963 duel between Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn. Marichal won the game 1-0 when Willie Mays hit a home run off of Spahn in the bottom of the 16th inning.
    Marichal repeatedly begged Giants manager Alvin Dark to leave him in the game, arguing that if the 42 year old Spahn could keep pitching then the 25 year old Marichal could do so. In the end Marichal had a 16 inning shutout while Spahn took the loss after pitching 15 shutout innings.
    I'd love to know what the pitch counts were for that game.
    Spahn knew he couldn't Mays out, walked him twice in that game.

    Code:
    PITCHING
    
    Milwaukee Braves             IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR BFP
    Spahn L(11-4)                15.1   9   1   1   1   2   1  56
    
    IBB: Spahn (2,Mays).
    
    San Francisco Giants         IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR BFP
    Marichal W(13-3)             16     8   0   0   4  10   0  59

  11. #10
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,689

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Spahn knew he couldn't Mays out, walked him twice in that game.

    Code:
    PITCHING
    
    Milwaukee Braves             IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR BFP
    Spahn L(11-4)                15.1   9   1   1   1   2   1  56
    
    IBB: Spahn (2,Mays).
    
    San Francisco Giants         IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR BFP
    Marichal W(13-3)             16     8   0   0   4  10   0  59
    Both guys were clearly BABIP lucky.

  12. #11
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,834

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Spahn knew he couldn't Mays out, walked him twice in that game.

    Code:
    PITCHING
    
    Milwaukee Braves             IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR BFP
    Spahn L(11-4)                15.1   9   1   1   1   2   1  56
    
    IBB: Spahn (2,Mays).
    
    San Francisco Giants         IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR BFP
    Marichal W(13-3)             16     8   0   0   4  10   0  59
    Spahn gave up Mays's very first major league HR back in 1951.
    Giving up 9 and 8 hits doesn't sound that impressive for a nine inning game; for a 15 or 16 inning game it isn't bad.
    Did Spahn and Marichal collapse after this marathon? Probably not. Spahn went 12-3 the rest of the season to finish 23-7 with a league leading 22 complete games, while Marichal went 12-5 the rest of the way to finish at 25-8, tying for the league lead in wins, along with 321 innings pitched. Neither was the Cy Young winner though, losing that honor to someone named Koufax.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #12
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,685

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    I wonder what happened to Sain and the rain?

  14. #13
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,835

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    I wonder what happened to Sain and the rain?
    Sain was way gone by then, (but you knew that!) he was older than Spahn and threw more junk then anything, The Braves had SEVEN guys with 13 or more starts that year, that's kind of scary.

  15. #14
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,626

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Spahn, like many top starters years ago, would come out of the pen four or five times a year. I believe Dizzy Dean would pitch in relief between starts even more often than that.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  16. #15
    6 months of heartbreak Bob Borkowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Aurora, IN
    Posts
    15,049

    Re: Imagine the Outrage

    Birdie Tebbetts would often use his starters (Brooks Lawrence, for example) in relief in-between starts. The thinking was that this would replace their normal throwing on the sidelines.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25