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Thread: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Its rumored that the team offered Rhodes a 1 year deal for ~$4M and also offered Renteria a deal (i am guessing for ~$2M). It possible that the team wouldn't have done both of those deals but it seems there is at least $4M & maybe $6M in the budget. I wonder if its really ~$8M as I can't believe Walt doesn't also have ~$2M set aside for a left hitting outfielder. We have heard all winter that the Reds are 'at payroll'. Yet when we all added up the salary committments we got nowhere near $80M. I suspect the Reds being 'at payroll' included Walt setting aside $6-8M for LF, SS & Rhodes.

    Now the challenge! Find the best way to improve the team if the Reds have either $4M, $6M or $8m to spend.

    A) My $4M scenario. Pretty simple. Chapman to the pen to take Rhodes spot. Renteria at ~$2M for backup shortstop. Lewis or Edmonds at ~$2M for left field. Not great but it does add some value to the 25 man roster.

    B) My $6M scenario. Chapman to the pen to take Rhodes spot. Renteria at ~$2M for backup shortstop. Trade Gomes to an AL team that could use help at DH. The Red Sox might as Ortiz can't hit lefties. The Yankees might as Posada may do a little catching. Rangers seem another possibility. The prospect we get back doesn't matter much. The trade is to free up $1.8M. The Reds use that $1.8M & the $4M left & trade for Kelly Johnson who will make ~$6M in arbitration. Based on what Willingham & DeJesus went for, I suspect a B & a C prospect would get it done. Maybe Valaika & one of our many relief pitchers stacking up in AAA. Johnson leads off & plays left field. He also adds another much needed (IMO) left handed bat to our lineup.

    C) My $8M scenario is the same as the $6M scenario except we keep Gomes. Johnson can play 2B ( and maybe 3B?) so Gomes would still get some starts in left versus a right handed pitcher. If Heisey looks great in the spring the team could still deal Gomes prior to opening day (if it looked like he wouldn't get much playing time).

    An alternative $8M is to use the 'B' scenario and use the $2M to try to sign a cheap lefty reliever to replace Rhodes in the pen. That frees up Chapman to be in the rotation.

    What do folks think? Do you believe the team has $4-8M to spend? If so how best could Walt spend it?
    .

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  3. #2
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Lots of scenarios, but I'll go with:

    For $4 Million:

    Yonder Alonso and a spare arm (say Carlos Fisher) to Texas for David Murphy and Andres Blanco and a minor league arm (a #10 to #15 range prospect in Texas who would be a clear top 10 in most other organizations). Murphy would be the LH half the LF platoon and Blanco is a Switch Hitter who can play 2B, SS, 3B and has worked this winter at C and the OF. Rolen hits in the 2 hole in front of Votto and Bruce. The Murphy/Gomes platoon bats 5th. Stubbs and Phillips move between 1st and 6th depending on who is hot. They hit 1 & 2 when Rolen sits and Francisco plays. Against LHP, Phillips moves up to clean-up and Bruce drops to 6th. Murphy is 1st year arb eligible and probably makes around $2 to 2.5 Million. Blanco will make around $500K. Alonso will make $600K whether or not he's on the 25 man roster, so this adds $2 to 2.5 Million and leaves about $1.5 to $2 Million for the deadline. In this scenario the Reds may need to drop to 11 pitchers or send Heisey to AAA.

    For $6 Million:

    Sign Johnny Damon to lead-off and play LF. Pass on getting a SS, keep Francisco to caddy Rolen and be the LH bench bat and take your chances with Cairo, knowing that Cozart can be recalled if need be.

    For $8 Million:

    Same as $6 Million and keep more money for the deadline.
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    $4 million move(s):
    Trade Francisco Cordero and Yonder Alonso for Carlos Beltran. The $4 million balances out the salaries. Beltran hits cleanup, Rolen hits second, Phillips leads off. Stubbs hits behind Bruce.

    $6 million move(s):
    Sign Manny Ramirez to play LF for one-year, $5 million. Plug him in at cleanup. Move Rolen to the #2 hole, with Phillips leading off and Stubbs hitting sixth. Play Janish at SS, with Valaika (or possibly Frazier) backing him up. Keep the million bucks for the deadline.

    $8 million move(s):
    Trade Francisco Cordero, Yonder Alonso, Chris Valaika, Zach Cozart, Chris Heisey, Mike Leake, and Matt Maloney to the New York Mets for Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes. The extra cash is used to balance salaries so that the Reds only boost salary $8 million total. Reyes leads off, with Rolen behind. Beltran hits cleanup. Phillips and Stubbs follow Bruce at six and seven. Janish becomes the middle infield backup.
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Talk Jim Edmonds into coming back for the LF platoon and then take the rest of the money and promise half of it to Bailey and half to Wood to use for hunting trips if they win 18 and 15 respectively. And do not trade Yonder Alonso.

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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    $$8 million move(s):
    Trade Francisco Cordero, Yonder Alonso, Chris Valaika, Zach Cozart, Chris Heisey, Mike Leake, and Matt Maloney to the New York Mets for Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes. The extra cash is used to balance salaries so that the Reds only boost salary $8 million total. Reyes leads off, with Rolen behind. Beltran hits cleanup. Phillips and Stubbs follow Bruce at six and seven. Janish becomes the middle infield backup.
    That's trading a ton of cheap, cost controlled talent to pick of two really expensive players who are UFA's after this season, and each has had injury/production issues.

    We are also weakening our pitching substantially for 2011, trading two pitchers who figure prominently in our plans, and another who is likely our #6 starter stashed at AAA.

    At $18M, Beltran likely has negative value.

    I'm not sure your numbers are correct. We pick up $29.5M in salaries and give up Cordero's $12M. THat's about a $18M difference, not $8M

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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    The Mets would pay the extra cash. (That's part of the reason why Cincinnati sends all that cost-controlled talent.)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    The Mets would pay the extra cash. (That's part of the reason why Cincinnati sends all that cost-controlled talent.)

    They would have to send over $10M.

    I don't like selling that much talent, unless I was getting sure things for more than one year.

    A trade like that is just not going to happen. And may not even make us any better. It severely weakens our pitching.

  9. #8
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    1. Chapman, Mesoraco, Sappelt and $$ to Florida for Mike Stanton.

    2. Phillips to Seattle for Figgins

    3. Volquez to Arizona for Stephen Drew.


    Leadoff hitter? Check
    Power-hitting RH left fielder? Check
    Shortstop with positive offensive value? Check

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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    1. Chapman, Mesoraco, Sappelt and $$ to Florida for Mike Stanton.

    2. Phillips to Seattle for Figgins

    3. Volquez to Arizona for Stephen Drew.


    Leadoff hitter? Check
    Power-hitting RH left fielder? Check
    Shortstop with positive offensive value? Check

    Have we ever sent money to someone? Especially when we aren't dumping salary?

    Figgens is owed a huge amount of money and isn't all that great. Don't want to touch that contract.

  11. #10
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    1. Chapman, Mesoraco, Sappelt and $$ to Florida for Mike Stanton.

    2. Phillips to Seattle for Figgins

    3. Volquez to Arizona for Stephen Drew.


    Leadoff hitter? Check
    Power-hitting RH left fielder? Check
    Shortstop with positive offensive value? Check
    Significantly worse rotation? Check
    Significantly worse defense up the middle? Check
    Organizational depth decimated? Check
    Exploding payroll in 2012-3? Check
    Guarantee that the Reds will not be competitive for years to come? Check
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  12. #11
    Member schroomytunes's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Ok with your 6 million in mind, that's not much but here goes:

    I truly think we are going to have Alonso platoon with Gomes to raise his trade value and have stubbs/phillips be our leadoff guy. So the additions i make are:

    1) Edgar Renteria-1yr at 1.75 million with incentives to reach 2.5million, he gives us a solid backup/starter at SS.

    2) save the remaining 3.5- 4million for a june/july acquisition based on our team's current standings.

    Now guys I like that are still to be had are:
    1) Joe Beimel-lhrp
    2) Chad Durbin-rhrp
    3) Fred Lewis-LH LF-if we dont go with Alonso
    4) Johnny Damon-LF same as above

    --we will see a lot of non roster invites for bullpen/5th OF's!!!

  13. #12
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Have we ever sent money to someone? Especially when we aren't dumping salary? Figgens is owed a huge amount of money and isn't all that great. Don't want to touch that contract.
    Significantly worse rotation? Check
    Significantly worse defense up the middle? Check
    Organizational depth decimated? Check
    Exploding payroll in 2012-3? Check
    Guarantee that the Reds will not be competitive for years to come? Check
    I realize those weren't realistic trades, but you guys are way off on the criticisms. Figgins has a similar value on the dollar as Phillips, and while the rotation suffers, it's mostly depth, you still have 5 dependable starters and you trade from a strength to a weakness anyway. Stephen Drew was a 5 win player last year, Volquez wasn't that good even in '08, which he's unlikely to top. Mesoraco is expendable because of Grandal. The defense is worse, but offense is more important than defense and the offense would be the best in the baseball, with Votto/Stanton/Bruce being an unparalleled heart of the order, and no gimmie outs anywhere. The payroll wouldn't explode, either, I don't know where you get that.

  14. #13
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    After much internal deliberation I've come to the conclusion that we aren't likely to improve at this juncture very much. Most of the upgrades are off the market. No matter what is done at the top of the lineup now we still don't have adequate protection behind Votto and he is the reason for adding a guy at the top. Short of making a serious run at a guy who might scare someone at the plate from LF or SS we are who we are gonna be.

    Jose Bautista
    Nelson Cruz
    Shin Soo Choo

    3 guys off the top of my head that can possibly protect Votto a little at a cheap price in terms of dollars. Gonna cost a substantial package to deal for no doubt but it's a must. None are likely "available" but that is why ya gotta get creative. To top it off 2 of the 3 also have an intriguing SS playing on the same team with them (Yunel Escobar & Asdrubal Cabrera). Toronto and Cleveland have to listen to any reasonable offer as they are still collecting prospects and rebuilding. Texas isn't likely to deal Cruz but they have a couple of potential black holes in CF and the rotation and a big contract they are trying to purge (Michael Young).

    Just some thoughts...
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 01-01-2011 at 08:54 PM.
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  15. #14
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Reds trade Homer Bailey, Naftali Soto, Jordan Smith, and Carlos Fisher to Cleveland
    Reds get Grady Sizemore ($7.5 Mil) and Rafael Perez ($1 Mil) to Reds

    - 7 Million

    Reds deal Brandon Phillips ($11 Mil) and Chris Heisey to Arizona
    Reds get Stephen Drew ($5 Mil)

    +6 Million

    Reds send Francisco Cordero ($12 Mil), Yonder Alonso ($1 Mil), Todd Frazier to Texas
    Reds recieve Michael Young ($16 Mil) and Cash ($9 Mil / $3 Mil per year)

    +/- 0 Million

    Reds dish out around $1-2 Million in the process

    Reds net a leadoff man/lefty bat to go with Gomes
    Reds swap Phillips for Young
    Reds get a francise type SS with Drew
    Reds get a young setup man in Perez
    Reds insert Chapman into the Starting Rotation






    Does that improve the team?
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    Re: Your challenge: improve the team for $6M

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    Reds send Francisco Cordero ($12 Mil), Yonder Alonso ($1 Mil), Todd Frazier to Texas
    Reds recieve Michael Young ($16 Mil) and Cash ($9 Mil / $3 Mil per year)





    So we are then on the hook for $13M for Young for an additional two years. For a guy who's OPS'ed above .800 once in the last 4 years.

    BTW, he's considered a horrible midde infielder.

    Cordero for Young and money would be a horrible deal.

    And we give up Alonso and Frazier also?


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