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Thread: Cardinals WILL be tough

  1. #1
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Cardinals WILL be tough

    For these reasons:

    1) They have some poorly performing ex-Reds off their roster like Fleepy and LaRue while adding two guys with a quality, professional approach, who are great in the clubhouse: Berkman and Theriot. What was evident about the Cards last year is that they played well against good teams and lousy against bad teams. This is symptom of bad approach/clubhouse which the Cards seem to have dealt with.

    2) Theriot is an improvement over Ryan--Ryan was too young, pushing limited ability in a lineup that was struggling. Not a good combo.

    3) They have tremendous starting pitching.

    4) The presence of Berkman, though not what he once was by any stretch, will deepen the Cards' Pujols/Holliday lineup, and release some pressure on the younger guys like Rasmus. Berkman could be the move that clicks the lineup right.

    The arguments that Pujols is prone to injury and the corner OF defense is lousy are very valid. A prolonged injury to Pujols could sink them immediately. Berkman being just a joke in the OF, or an injury to Rasmus, who will be picking up the OF defense slack, could sink them too. But I don't expect them to be anywhere near as bad as they were last year...
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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  3. #2
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    For these reasons:

    1) They have some poorly performing ex-Reds off their roster like Fleepy and LaRue while adding two guys with a quality, professional approach, who are great in the clubhouse: Berkman and Theriot. What was evident about the Cards last year is that they played well against good teams and lousy against bad teams. This is symptom of bad approach/clubhouse which the Cards seem to have dealt with.
    improving your team improves your team. Theriot is not an improvement. Berkman better be channeling his 2004 self, because RF is gonna be fun to watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    2) Theriot is an improvement over Ryan--Ryan was too young, pushing limited ability in a lineup that was struggling. Not a good combo.
    Theriot has the range of a pregnant llama in a forest fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    3) They have tremendous starting pitching.
    They had it last year too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    4) The presence of Berkman, though not what he once was by any stretch, will deepen the Cards' Pujols/Holliday lineup, and release some pressure on the younger guys like Rasmus. Berkman could be the move that clicks the lineup right.
    You are right. I can almost see Berkman starting over Rasmus. TLR is a genius that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    The arguments that Pujols is prone to injury and the corner OF defense is lousy are very valid. A prolonged injury to Pujols could sink them immediately. Berkman being just a joke in the OF, or an injury to Rasmus, who will be picking up the OF defense slack, could sink them too. But I don't expect them to be anywhere near as bad as they were last year...
    They won 86 games. that is by no definition "bad". Now, their reaction to that? heh. that was bad.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    improving your team improves your team. Theriot is not an improvement. Berkman better be channeling his 2004 self, because RF is gonna be fun to watch.

    Theriot has the range of a pregnant llama in a forest fire.
    Theriot has pretty much been a positive defender in the field every year of his career except for 2010. He's not as good with the glove as Ryan, but his bat is much better than Ryan's. This is a net gain for the Cards.

  5. #4
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    well Ryan is a career .658 OPS guy to Theriot's .704. But Theriot has been in a tailspin the last 2 seasons and is 2 years older. If these are his peak years... ouch.

    Defensively, Theriot reminds me of Ryan Freel, lots of dirt on the uniform.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Theriot has pretty much been a positive defender in the field every year of his career except for 2010. He's not as good with the glove as Ryan, but his bat is much better than Ryan's. This is a net gain for the Cards.
    Theriot was absolutely a horrible hitter last year. Probably the worst power hitter in baseball.

    I'd take Ryan any day of the week and, of course, twice on Sunday.

  7. #6
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    I think everyone in the Central got better except for the Cards. I really don't understand some of the moves they made. Berkman in RF makes no sense to me and it was already said will be fun to watch. I'd be amazed if Garcia doesn't struggle to match last seasons numbers. Wainwright, Pujols, Rasmus, Holliday will be beast like usual but it wasn't enough in 2010 and I have no idea why it would be enough in 2011.

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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post

    1) What was evident about the Cards last year is that they played well against good teams and lousy against bad teams. This is symptom of bad approach/clubhouse which the Cards seem to have dealt with.

    Likely more randomness/small sample size.

    Teams that play lousy against lousy teams are usually less than stellar.

    Go figure.

  9. #8
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    I think you have understated the defensive changes. Brendan Ryan is one of the best defensive SS in baseball. Theriot is league aveage at best -- good hands, poor range.

    Berkman last had a good defensive year in the OF in 2003.

    The Cards pitchers will be suffering from the decline.

    All that said, I don't think anybody was under the impression they'd be a walk in the park.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Theriot was absolutely a horrible hitter last year. Probably the worst power hitter in baseball.

    I'd take Ryan any day of the week and, of course, twice on Sunday.
    Power hitter? Since when was Theriot a power hitter? I've never heard anyone refer to Theriot as a power hitter. There is no doubt he had a crappy year last year, but as a player he's been a bit better than league average for his career.

    Also, Ryan OPS'ed .573 last year, which might qualify him to be a decent AA player.

  11. #10
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Power hitter? Since when was Theriot a power hitter? I've never heard anyone refer to Theriot as a power hitter. There is no doubt he had a crappy year last year, but as a player he's been a bit better than league average for his career.

    Also, Ryan OPS'ed .573 last year, which might qualify him to be a decent AA player.
    I beleive he meant one of the worst hitters in respect to power.

  12. #11
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    I'm still worried about The Cards, but not because of any additions they've made this offseason.

    I'm more concerned about the things that affected us last season: Carpenter and his son, Wainwright, Garcia, Pujols, Holliday, Molina.

    Theriot is a 2B playing SS and Berkman is a DH playing RF. Their bats might be better than what they replaced but the Cardinals defense just got a lot worse. And with The Cardinals pitch to contact philosophy, well I'll be interested to see how that works out.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    2013 Reds Record when I attend: 5-4
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  13. #12
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    I'm not sold on Garcia...albeit I'm not sold on Mike Leake either.

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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I'm not sold on Garcia...albeit I'm not sold on Mike Leake either.
    Garcia is their 3rd starter. Leake is likely starting in the minors.

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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I beleive he meant one of the worst hitters in respect to power.


    Yes I did.

    19 Xtra base hits in 640 PA.

    That is beyond bad.

  16. #15
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals WILL be tough

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Garcia is their 3rd starter. Leake is likely starting in the minors.
    I know. I said that in order to show I'm evenhandedly hard to please.


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