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Thread: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

  1. #31
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Non-Reds fans would add Hamilton to that list.
    I would too. (Add Hamilton to the backfire list)

    Ted Power wasn't a top 15 pickup, but it's simliar to Franco.. Got a closer for nothing. Not saying that Power was as good as Franco.

    Hopefully, in a couple more years, Rolen will be added to the top 15 list
    Right now, I think it's at least a top 40 trade, in terms of relevance.
    I guess I value trades like Rolen (and Neagle/Vaughn) higher than most fans, because those moves made the team relevant.

    In contrast, Franco did not really make the team relevant, as the rest of the team was not very good.

    For Reds fans....yes. On the surface for the baseball world, no.
    Yep, no offense to anyone, but some Reds' fans are still in denial.
    Sure, it's possible that somehow Volquez will become the ace we hope he will be and Hamilton will fall off the face of the earth. Is it likely? No.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #32
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    A backfire list would have to include Jim Bowden's biggest blunder:

    leaving Trevor Hoffman unprotected in the expansion draft. Now they're discussing him as a Hall of Famer. How many Hall of Famers were left unprotected? Bowden's in some rare company there

  4. #33
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    A backfire list would have to include Jim Bowden's biggest blunder:

    leaving Trevor Hoffman unprotected in the expansion draft. Now they're discussing him as a Hall of Famer. How many Hall of Famers were left unprotected? Bowden's in some rare company there
    What was the background on this blunder???

    Did Jimbo just think Hoffman wasn't very good?
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  5. #34
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    What was the background on this blunder???

    Did Jimbo just think Hoffman wasn't very good?
    Background is simple, Hoffman was a converted position player, he had 2 years in the ML as a reliever and the hope was that that would keep him from being coveted. But he was picked in the 4th round, before the man who was their closer that year (Bryan Harvey)

    It was gamble... but not as large a loss as the Reds passing on buying Babe Ruth in 1914, keeping Ken Williams in 1916, not keeping Johnny Mize for 50 K in 1935 or maybe even losing George Mquinn in 1936.

  6. #35
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    What was the background on this blunder???

    Did Jimbo just think Hoffman wasn't very good?
    As I recall, it went like this:

    Bowden was down to protecting Hoffman or 1B Tim Costo. He decided to go with Costo probably for two reasons. One, Bowden always loved big, slugging first basemen and two, the Reds had a lot invested in Costo due to their trading top minor league prospect Reggie Jefferson for him in 1991.

    Now, this whole situation exemplifies Jim Bowden. When the choice comes down to a 1B or a pitcher, common sense says you go with the pitcher as 1B are much easier to come by. Bowden never got that. He drooled over power hitters.

    He was an idiot for erring with the 1B and letting the pitching prospect go regardless of what happened thereafter.

  7. #36
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    As I recall, it went like this:

    Bowden was down to protecting Hoffman or 1B Tim Costo. He decided to go with Costo probably for two reasons. One, Bowden always loved big, slugging first basemen and two, the Reds had a lot invested in Costo due to their trading top minor league prospect Reggie Jefferson for him in 1991.

    Now, this whole situation exemplifies Jim Bowden. When the choice comes down to a 1B or a pitcher, common sense says you go with the pitcher as 1B are much easier to come by. Bowden never got that. He drooled over power hitters.

    He was an idiot for erring with the 1B and letting the pitching prospect go regardless of what happened thereafter.
    It was even worst than that. He also protected Tim Pugh, who basically had a good month of September the season earlier. Pugh was the 90's version of Sam Lecure. Even if he had reached his potential, he would have been a very replaceable player. IIRC, pretty much the entire development department demanded Hoffman be protected, but Bowden was more interested in protecting MLB ready players. I know I was upset when Hoffman wasn't protected.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  8. #37
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    It was even worst than that. He also protected Tim Pugh, who basically had a good month of September the season earlier. Pugh was the 90's version of Sam Lecure. Even if he had reached his potential, he would have been a very replaceable player. IIRC, pretty much the entire development department demanded Hoffman be protected, but Bowden was more interested in protecting MLB ready players. I know I was upset when Hoffman wasn't protected.
    Let's also note that Bowden was on the job about 6 weeks by the time the draft occurred, he had also just traded O'Neil, chances are he was covering his bets that a RELIEF pitcher in the minors wouldn't amount to much.

    As bets go that's not hitting on 15 as far as I can see.

  9. #38
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Let's also note that Bowden was on the job about 6 weeks by the time the draft occurred, he had also just traded O'Neil, chances are he was covering his bets that a RELIEF pitcher in the minors wouldn't amount to much.

    As bets go that's not hitting on 15 as far as I can see.
    As bets go, he lost bigtime

  10. #39
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Let's also note that Bowden was on the job about 6 weeks by the time the draft occurred, he had also just traded O'Neil, chances are he was covering his bets that a RELIEF pitcher in the minors wouldn't amount to much.

    As bets go that's not hitting on 15 as far as I can see.

    Hoffman had put up dominating numbers in his first two seasons as a pitcher, averaging over 10 K's per 9 innings, and raking up over 30 saves. He was a top 100 prospect in the majors and considered a future closer, which at that time was probably even a more valuable community than now, especially for the Reds, whose team was built around a strong bullpen and who lacked any closer prospects besides Hoffman at the time.

    This wasn't like leaving a future Ondrusek unprotected.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  11. #40
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Hoffman had put up dominating numbers in his first two seasons as a pitcher, averaging over 10 K's per 9 innings, and raking up over 30 saves. He was a top 100 prospect in the majors and considered a future closer, which at that time was probably even a more valuable community than now, especially for the Reds, whose team was built around a strong bullpen and who lacked any closer prospects besides Hoffman at the time.

    This wasn't like leaving a future Ondrusek unprotected.
    All true, at the time the Reds were great at producing BP arms and they had 2 relievers with over 25 saves, chances are they felt they were safer there at the time than they really were. My take was that they kept Costo because they had ended up losing Jefferson for him on an earlier move that was lambasted... plus Costo had just hit 28 dingers in AA that year.

  12. #41
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    All true, at the time the Reds were great at producing BP arms and they had 2 relievers with over 25 saves, chances are they felt they were safer there at the time than they really were. My take was that they kept Costo because they had ended up losing Jefferson for him on an earlier move that was lambasted... plus Costo had just hit 28 dingers in AA that year.
    If I recall correctly, Bob Quinn inadvertently designated Reggie Jefferson for assignment. (Jefferson was one of the Reds' top minor-league hitting prospects at the time, and someone they were considering moving Hal Morris to LF to make room for at 1B.) The Indians could have had him for nothing, but their GM (either Hank Peters or John Hart--I'm not sure which one was in charge at the time) decided to work out a deal with the Reds as a courtesy, and the Reds received Tim Costo.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  13. #42
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    If I recall correctly, Bob Quinn inadvertently designated Reggie Jefferson for assignment. (Jefferson was one of the Reds' top minor-league hitting prospects at the time, and someone they were considering moving Hal Morris to LF to make room for at 1B.) The Indians could have had him for nothing, but their GM (either Hank Peters or John Hart--I'm not sure which one was in charge at the time) decided to work out a deal with the Reds as a courtesy, and the Reds received Tim Costo.
    I never knew about that. I just looked it up, and it's one of the most hilarious baseball transactions I've ever seen.
    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...efferson-trade
    If baseball did videos of front-office bloopers, the trade of prospects between Cincinnati and Cleveland a couple of weeks ago might lead this season's highlight film.

    It all started when the Reds designated Reggie Jefferson for assignment rather than put him on the disabled list.

  14. #43
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    If I recall correctly, Bob Quinn inadvertently designated Reggie Jefferson for assignment. (Jefferson was one of the Reds' top minor-league hitting prospects at the time, and someone they were considering moving Hal Morris to LF to make room for at 1B.) The Indians could have had him for nothing, but their GM (either Hank Peters or John Hart--I'm not sure which one was in charge at the time) decided to work out a deal with the Reds as a courtesy, and the Reds received Tim Costo.
    Yep, that's what happened, also at the time Spring training magazine had Costo listed as the #26 prospect in the ML and Hoffman was listed at #84

  15. #44
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    If I recall correctly, Bob Quinn inadvertently designated Reggie Jefferson for assignment. (Jefferson was one of the Reds' top minor-league hitting prospects at the time, and someone they were considering moving Hal Morris to LF to make room for at 1B.) The Indians could have had him for nothing, but their GM (either Hank Peters or John Hart--I'm not sure which one was in charge at the time) decided to work out a deal with the Reds as a courtesy, and the Reds received Tim Costo.
    I sort of remember, too, (and correct me if I'm wrong) that a name mentioned for possible trade before Costo was settled on was none other than Jim Thome.

  16. #45
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Most Lopsided Trades in the Reds' Favor

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yep, that's what happened, also at the time Spring training magazine had Costo listed as the #26 prospect in the ML and Hoffman was listed at #84
    Cost was #14 in '91.

    11. Mo Vaughn
    12. Reggie Sanders
    13. Jeff Bagwell
    14. Tim Costo


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