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Thread: Surprised at the complaining

  1. #1
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    Surprised at the complaining

    on this site about management. Everywhere else Jocketty is regarded as one of the best and he is admired as a guy who has proven himself. If you read national media or forum discussions on non-Reds sites he is always respected. But after reading through several threads on the ORG and Sundeck I see a lot of people questioning him and acting like he is an idiot.

    IMO I like what he has done so far. He has brought in depth at key positions and depth was what got the Reds to the playoffs last year.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I also have no problem in what he has done. I think the man knows what he's doing and I couldn't be any happier than to have him as the GM. He's improved every season since being with the organization and I think this year will be no exception.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I want to believe everything is ok with the team, but I feel there are too many holes that haven't been filled. I personally feel we have a great opportunity to win some rings and if I were the GM I would go with it by bringing in some high profile players such as JAyson Werth, would have been a nice fit in LF over Gomes, Grienke would have been a nice top of the rotation man-we could have probably traded guys that don't mean sqaut like Francisco and Alonso for him, and Jose Reyes for a leadoff man/shortstop-probably could have traded a few AA/AAA prospects for him. Those moves would have put us over for about the next 2-3 seasons.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I just don't think that half the people on here understand baseball or baseball management.

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    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    Quote Originally Posted by will5979 View Post
    I want to believe everything is ok with the team, but I feel there are too many holes that haven't been filled. I personally feel we have a great opportunity to win some rings and if I were the GM I would go with it by bringing in some high profile players such as JAyson Werth, would have been a nice fit in LF over Gomes, Grienke would have been a nice top of the rotation man-we could have probably traded guys that don't mean sqaut like Francisco and Alonso for him, and Jose Reyes for a leadoff man/shortstop-probably could have traded a few AA/AAA prospects for him. Those moves would have put us over for about the next 2-3 seasons.
    You realize none of what you suggested is reasonable? Werth is not worth the contract he was signed to. Grienke would require more than just Francisco and Alonso, the Brewers gave up their starting short stop, a probable starting CFer, and 2 of their top pitching prospects. Getting Reyes would require more than just a few AA/AAA prospects, and the Mets have said that they plan on him staying a met when the season starts, so it would take a very good offer to get them to change their mind, more than just a few AA/AAA prospects.

    Most of the complaining is caused because some people think these things are as easy said as done. People want the flashy move and don't realize the cost associated with doing it. You might upgrade 1 spot from a normal starter to all star level, but you might downgrade 3 or 4 other positions because of the cost associated with it.

    Walt did a good job of removing glaring holes this season, we got a platoon partner for Gomes in LF which should enhance both players stats and we got another leadoff option in Lewis as well. The only arguable hole there is left could be at short stop if you don't predict Janish will perform well this season. With very few options out there, Walt got another option at short stop which atleast gives another possibility if Janish fails to perform up to par. This also allows us to keep guys like Cozart in AAA and get everyday at bats and improve at the plate. People bemoan the signing of veterans, but it allows the proper development of the younger guys who can get everday at bats, let guys start the season getting constant at bats and then they can be brought up later in the season if they have proven themselves.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    It's as integral to the game as complaining about lineup construction and in game moves.

    That said, Walt is doing a great job of putting a 162 game roster in place.
    "Hyperbole is the greatest thing ever" Redsland

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    Member wlf WV's Avatar
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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    If this management will continue to invest in a minor league that turns out quality athletes ,I'm satisfied with the position the organization is in,only because of young talent. Store bought talent cannot work for Cincinnati without MLB restructuring to allow more parity. It doesn't always work in NY or Boston.I like our position long term, a lot better than Brewers or Cards.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I am never surprised by the complaining on this site. I'm certain that many of the people complaining are the type of people who are never happy with anything in their lives, let alone the Reds.

    When the pessimism gets too bad, I just take a break from reading the board (which happens quite often). You start to figure who the cry babies are and ignore them.

    There is a solid crew of level-headed people here who when they say something, I listen and give it merit.

  10. #9
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I'm a very happy person. I was happy the Reds won the division and made the playoffs.

    I also have my own business and if you're not constantly critiquing things and working to get better, you can quickly fall behind.

    Having said the above, I do feel everything went right for the Reds last year for the most part and they were probably the weakest team to make the playoffs in both leagues.

    I also see many weaknesses that haven't been addressed. I saw problems in the second half last year.

    There wasn't a free agent on the market I was interested in signing. And I'm not interested in making a move just to make a move.

    BUT.........It seems the Reds only make CHEAP moves anymore. They never seem willing to go above and beyond to better this team.

    I also understand that I have no information as to what goes on behind the scenes.......what deals Walt may or may not have tried to make that just didn't happen or fell through.

    But what I do see is an organization with a stocked farm system, full of players that have nowhere to go because they major league roster is pretty much set at all positions, and at some positions, they are set for years (outfield, first base, starting pitching, catcher, etc.). We have players to deal to improve the team.

    It just seems that Walt can never make a decent trade. He settles for bargain bin signings and hopes everything turns out alright. Just like Corey Patterson and Willy Tavares. Didn't he sign Mike Lincoln to a 2 year contract too? Walt gets alot of credit but nobody takes notice of his bad moves. And maybe alot of the credit should go back to Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky?

    Alot of people on this board seem to act like Jocketty walks on water. He did get fired from a topnotch organization. Maybe he can't pull off needed trades to fill our weaknesses?

    Of course, since we'll never know because we're not privy to that information, Jocketty's possible ineptness at pulling off trades may remain a secret.

    I still can't believe he can't pry Choo away from Cleveland. Choo made the minimum last year and is in his first year of arbitration. Cleveland is rebuilding. Surely 3 to 4 quality players are better than them keeping one guy.

    And time after time some other team makes a deal that we're rumored to be in on, but Walt can't get it done. I'm still waiting for him to pull off a quality and money efficient deal. I've yet to see it.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. #10
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    Signing my favorite player, Votto, to an extension, earns brownie points with me. Way to go Walt. I'll write that move on the positive side of your accomplishments.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #11
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I guess as an outsider, I was kind of surprised at the amount of angst the Reds nation had over their teams off season moves, or lack there of. It is kind of interesting that I had more faith in the Reds for the 2011 season than the staunch Reds fans do.

    It is probably just because when you are a fan, heart plays a major part of it. For example, I can sit back at my cozy desk in St. Louis and logically think the Reds have a great shot at it this year. The pitchers are there, the defense is there, the offense is there. You don't have a true Ace but anything can happen in the playoffs. There simply are no real glaring holes on the Reds team. However, because I have no rooting interests, I can't even begin to feel what a Reds fan feels about their team. Looking at Vottomatics comments in recent weeks, he seems to give somewhat favorable marks for the Cardinals and their chances this year. However, some of the fan base in St. Louis are ready to burn down the house of Cardinals ownership due to their moves this offseason and the Pujols situation. Its just when you are a fan of a team, there is a passion there that sometimes overtakes any real logical train of thought.

    Don't panic Reds fans, your team will be good this year

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    IMO the Reds will only win a WS if their young talent goes superstar- Bruce, Stubbs, Chapman, and 1-2 of Volquez, Wood, Bailey, Leake, Cueto. That is more likely than trading for a superstar type player, which requires giving away talent and the future.

    That is the position that all the small market teams in the MLB are in. They aren't going to outspend the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies etc. in the free agent market, plus big name FA's don't want to play in small market cities anyway. The good news is that small market teams have won the WS by building teams of young homegrown players and cast-off veterans. That is what Walt is trying to do.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    It's something about baseball fans. More than any other sport, baseball fans always think they can do a better job at managing their team.

    I don't understand it... I agree though, I love our offseason so far and I have faith in Jocketty making the right moves.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    I think some people have given Jocketty too much credit at times....at other times not enough. A lot of the moves made to get this franchise where they are today were made in the O'brien/ Krivsky years. The thing that has impressed me the most is the fact that Jocketty hasn't panicked under the pressure of the owner to trade away good young talent to compete right now. IMO that's what Krivsky did when he traded Hamilton for Volquez and when he signed Cordero. Jocketty seems to be willing to give some of the young guys time to develop. Jocketty has a history with Castellini and he is a proven GM......Castellini trusts him. I predict that if the Reds are in contention at the trade deadline this year that's when you'll see Jocketty make a major move for a true #1 starter. All that being said I just don't see how, barring injuries, anyone will be able to compete with the Phillies in the NL.

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    Re: Surprised at the complaining

    You'll get nothing but praise about Jocketty from me.


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