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Thread: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

  1. #16
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    I don't get the sudden lack of knowledge concerning Bavasi's philosophy.
    Didn't follow the Mariners. Examples?
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  3. #17
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Who are some of the prospects he didn't rush?
    JoJo, can you elaborate? I can't determine when Bavasi took on his position with the Reds (I remember we had some changes in the system), but I'm not familiar with his track record with the Reds. It's why I asked because I know there are folks on RZ who disdain Bavasi for his time elsewhere.

    Are there players you believe we've rushed in the last year or two? Players he rushed when he was in player development with the Angels or when he was a GM? Players he rushed at Seattle?
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    JoJo, can you elaborate? I can't determine when Bavasi took on his position with the Reds (I remember we had some changes in the system), but I'm not familiar with his track record with the Reds. It's why I asked because I know there are folks on RZ who disdain Bavasi for his time elsewhere.

    Are there players you believe we've rushed in the last year or two? Players he rushed when he was in player development with the Angels or when he was a GM? Players he rushed at Seattle?
    I too have heard a LOT of negative things about Bavasi, as well, but really no explanations as to specifics. I'd be interested in knowing why Bavasi gets a lot of flack.

    And honestly, until THIS thread, I thought Bill Bavasi was just a advisor to Walt. I had no idea he had anything to do with player development. :
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  5. #19
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Billy's future will be more clear when we see where he starts in 2011 and how he performs there. If he does well at Dayton, he may not be there very long. I'd want to get him to A+ so he can move up to AA in 2012 to avoid Bakersfield. (If that field is as bad as they say)
    The Bakersfield affiliation starts this year, not next, so he won't be able to avoid it.

  6. #20
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini View Post
    The Bakersfield affiliation starts this year, not next, so he won't be able to avoid it.
    Oh yeah. I felt like I was mixing things up. I was thinking of the Carolina deal.

  7. #21
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    It's very easy to find people to criticize Bill Bavasi the GM. Wikipedia can give you a good start if you really want to know. As for his other roles in organizations, I don't recall hearing anything bad. As long as he's not the Reds' GM, he seems like an asset to me.

  8. #22
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    It's very easy to find people to criticize Bill Bavasi the GM. Wikipedia can give you a good start if you really want to know. As for his other roles in organizations, I don't recall hearing anything bad. As long as he's not the Reds' GM, he seems like an asset to me.
    My presumption is that folks are making their judgments based on his time in Seattle and some fear (I think needlessly) that he's the GM in waiting. Nothing would indicate that. I'm still not clear when he took on the new position and title (sometime last season, it seems), but I've seen nothing that shows he's out of sync with the overall philosophy of the current regime. Again, I'd be willing to look at some evidence to the contrary, if it exists.
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  9. #23
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    My presumption is that folks are making their judgments based on his time in Seattle and some fear (I think needlessly) that he's the GM in waiting. Nothing would indicate that. I'm still not clear when he took on the new position and title (sometime last season, it seems), but I've seen nothing that shows he's out of sync with the overall philosophy of the current regime. Again, I'd be willing to look at some evidence to the contrary, if it exists.
    Bavasi's philosophy on player development was consistent across his tenures in Anaheim and Seattle. I won't have time to address this thread with as informative of a post as some of the questions require until sometime this evening but BB's reputation for rapidly promoting prospects was earned.
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Seems like Hamilton is a similar player to Rafael Furcal, and looking at Furcal's minor league numbers it appears the fast track could have him as our starting SS sometime in 2012. That does still all hinge on how he performs this season and how he holds down SS.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  11. #25
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Seems like Hamilton is a similar player to Rafael Furcal, and looking at Furcal's minor league numbers it appears the fast track could have him as our starting SS sometime in 2012. That does still all hinge on how he performs this season and how he holds down SS.
    I don't think 2012 is anything close to realistic. That means he is going to go through Dayton, Bakersfield, AA, AAA and reach the majors in something like a year and a half. Absolute studs don't do that, and while I like Billy Hamilton, he isn't quite an absolute stud (Jay Bruce was an absolute stud, he did it all - Hamilton doesn't have the power to just obliterate a level). There is the chance that he goes 2 levels in 2011 and 2 levels in 2012 and has a shot at starting in the bigs in 2013, but even that seems a little aggressive IMO, and I really like Billy Hamilton.

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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't think 2012 is anything close to realistic. That means he is going to go through Dayton, Bakersfield, AA, AAA and reach the majors in something like a year and a half. Absolute studs don't do that, and while I like Billy Hamilton, he isn't quite an absolute stud (Jay Bruce was an absolute stud, he did it all - Hamilton doesn't have the power to just obliterate a level). There is the chance that he goes 2 levels in 2011 and 2 levels in 2012 and has a shot at starting in the bigs in 2013, but even that seems a little aggressive IMO, and I really like Billy Hamilton.
    If they really have Hamilton on the "fast track" and Hamilton continues to perform as he did last season, he could reach AA by the end of this season, whether that involves skipping Bakersfield, or short stints at all three levels. Then he could start 2012 in AA and make it to the bigs at some point in 2012. They have taken the slow route with most all of our prospects, but if they are going to take the fast track they could skip him at a MiL level somewhere. I don't see it being that unrealistic, unlikely yes.

    At the start of last season hardly anyone probably thought Mesoraco had a chance at seeing AAA last season, and probably not the bigs sometime this season.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 01-20-2011 at 06:41 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  13. #27
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    I could see Hamilton on the Dave Sappelt path.

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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    I see Hamilton in Cincinnati (at some point) in 2013. Ditto for Yorman Rodriguez, although both players will have to perform well in Dayton this year to justify such a timetable.

    Although it's still way too early to make a call like this, 2013/2014 could mark the ushering in of a new era in Cincinnati, with possible departures of Votto, Bailey, Cueto, and/or Volquez, and the possible arrivals of Hamilton, Rodriguez, and Grandal.
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Seems like Hamilton is a similar player to Rafael Furcal, and looking at Furcal's minor league numbers it appears the fast track could have him as our starting SS sometime in 2012. That does still all hinge on how he performs this season and how he holds down SS.
    How about Elvis Andrus as the comp?

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    If they really have Hamilton on the "fast track" and Hamilton continues to perform as he did last season, he could reach AA by the end of this season, whether that involves skipping Bakersfield, or short stints at all three levels. Then he could start 2012 in AA and make it to the bigs at some point in 2012. They have taken the slow route with most all of our prospects, but if they are going to take the fast track they could skip him at a MiL level somewhere. I don't see it being that unrealistic, unlikely yes.

    At the start of last season hardly anyone probably thought Mesoraco had a chance at seeing AAA last season, and probably not the bigs sometime this season.
    Mesoraco on the other hand did something that Billy Hamilton simply isn't going to do. Hit .300 and slug .500+. That isn't in his game. To top it off, Mesoraco was quite a bit older and had a ton more experience (a year and a half older and had two full seasons + a half a season under his belt, while Hamilton has two half seasons under his belt).

    Hamilton has yet to play a full season, expecting him to go through A, A+ and finish in AA is pretty unrealistic.


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