Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 167

Thread: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    But he could certainly go through Dayton and Bakersfield in 2011, then go through AA, play a few games in Louisville, and play in eptember in the majors in 2012. (Many exceptional prospects do just that.)

    That could very well put him in as the starter in Cincinnati in April of 2013 without a huge jump.

    I wouldn't bet on it, but if he's a top ten prospect in all of baseball, he would (typically) do just that at least once in his minor league career (re, jump two or more levels in one season).

    I don't know if he will, as Hamilton is young, but a lack of quality prospects in front of him, a huge contract at 2B, no SS, and a leadoff need may push him as well.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,114

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    But he could certainly go through Dayton and Bakersfield in 2011, then go through AA, play a few games in Louisville, and play in eptember in the majors in 2012. (Many exceptional prospects do just that.)

    That could very well put him in as the starter in Cincinnati in April of 2013 without a huge jump.

    I wouldn't bet on it, but if he's a top ten prospect in all of baseball, he would (typically) do just that at least once in his minor league career (re, jump two or more levels in one season).

    I don't know if he will, as Hamilton is young, but a lack of quality prospects in front of him, a huge contract at 2B, no SS, and a leadoff need may push him as well.
    Guys in front of him in the 2B/SS line: Zack Cozart, Chris Valaika, Kris Negron, Miguel Rojas (doubt he holds him back too long, but he is going to be ahead of him for the time being), Didi Gregorius and Henry Rodriguez. There are 5 solid to good prospects in there and the guy the Reds are in love with defensively. If the Reds didn't have all of those guys, sure, he might get pushed quickly.... but I just don't see it given what is in front of him.

  4. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    163

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    So you would say power trumps speed? I believe that if a player can get on pretty easily, and show over 2-3 months they can consistently do it, and have the speed that people say Hamilton have, then I am sure he could make a pretty big jump. Not a Bruce jump, or jumps, but hitting a few levels a year, and making it to AAA with Hamilton's skill set isn't completely out of the question.

  5. #34
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,114

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by nate1213 View Post
    So you would say power trumps speed? I believe that if a player can get on pretty easily, and show over 2-3 months they can consistently do it, and have the speed that people say Hamilton have, then I am sure he could make a pretty big jump. Not a Bruce jump, or jumps, but hitting a few levels a year, and making it to AAA with Hamilton's skill set isn't completely out of the question.
    Guys in their first full season of pro ball don't jump from low A to AAA. It simply doesn't happen. And yes, power absolutely trumps speed. Speed is a nice addition to an offensive resume. Power is a major part of an offensive resume.

    I think a lot of people are getting well ahead of themselves here with Hamilton. Another light power, really fast middle infielder posted this line in the Pioneer League in 2009 at age 19: .314/.363/.387 with a walk rate of 5.3% and a strikeout rate of 12%.

    Billy Hamilton at age 19 hit: .318/.383/.456 with a walk rate of 8.3% and a strikeout rate of 17.7%.

    Hamilton showed more power, but the rest of their games are pretty similar.

    The mystery player went to the Midwest League last season and hit .273/.327/.379 this season with a 6% walk rate and an 11.3% strikeout rate. There is a decent step up in talent from the Pioneer League to the Midwest League and its not always a seamless transition. Mystery player BTW, Didi Gregorius. Athletically, he compares fairly well with Hamilton, though he is a little taller.

  6. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,799

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Guys in front of him in the 2B/SS line: Zack Cozart, Chris Valaika, Kris Negron, Miguel Rojas (doubt he holds him back too long, but he is going to be ahead of him for the time being), Didi Gregorius and Henry Rodriguez. There are 5 solid to good prospects in there and the guy the Reds are in love with defensively. If the Reds didn't have all of those guys, sure, he might get pushed quickly.... but I just don't see it given what is in front of him.
    Depends on what you mean by "in front of him." Do they play the same position in a higher league at the moment? Yes. Will they be significant factors in impeding his progress if he takes off? No.

    Hamilton is a significantly better prospect than anyone you mentioned, except for possibly Zack Cozart, who is more than 5 years older than Hamilton.
    Last edited by Benihana; 01-21-2011 at 01:58 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Another light power, really fast middle infielder posted this line in the Pioneer League in 2009 at age 19: .314/.363/.387 with a walk rate of 5.3% and a strikeout rate of 12%.

    Billy Hamilton at age 19 hit: .318/.383/.456 with a walk rate of 8.3% and a strikeout rate of 17.7%.

    Hamilton showed more power, but the rest of their games are pretty similar.
    Similar aside from obp (up 20 points), BB rate (up 3%), and slugging (up 70 points), you mean?

    The only similar things between Gregorious and Hamilton are that both play the middle infield and both had a 320-ish batting average in the Pioneer League.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  8. #37
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,905

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    The only similar things between Gregorious and Hamilton are that both play the middle infield and both had a 320-ish batting average in the Pioneer League.
    Even if they were exactly the same it's a purely anectdotal argument. Another anecdote: Jay Bruce and Wladimir Balentien put up similar numbers in A-ball @ 19 y.o.. So what?
    Last edited by kpresidente; 01-21-2011 at 04:18 PM.

  9. #38
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,114

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Even if they were exactly the same it's a purely anectdotal argument. Another anecdote: Jay Bruce and Wladimir Balentien put up similar numbers in A-ball @ 19 y.o.. So what?
    Sure, its anecdotal and I do expect Hamilton to do better in 2011 than Gregorius did in 2010 for Dayton, but my point was that its a big jump from Billings to Dayton. Gregorius and Hamilton have pretty similar skillsets though. Hamilton has plus plus speed while Gregorius is simply a plus runner, but aside from that, their tools are pretty similar while Gregorius might have better power in the future.

    Here is where I am at right now..... If Billy Hamilton were simply just fast, instead of super fast, and had the exact same everything else without the 30+ steal ability, some wouldn't be going so overboard on fast tracking him. In my opinion, being really fast isn't a reason to fast track someone. Fast track him because of his bat/glove, not his wheels. I don't see his bat warranting the idea that he should be fast tracked at this point.

  10. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,059

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Fast track is a phrase the reds should remove from their vocabulary. If they only have a guy so long I don't see how they benefit from rushing them through the minors and not making them develop fully before going to the majors.

    Hypothetically, say the reds have a a 20 year old who scouts love and could post HOF caliber numbers...if the team isn't going to be competitive or if they can find a guy to contribute positively why rush them?

    If the player does pan out early and is putting up big numbers there is a good chance he will be out the door to the highest bidder just another year sooner anyhow. you risk losing some of the years he's under control to potentially less productive seasons than when he get's a little older/stronger/skilled.

  11. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,079

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    What about the possibility of a jump from AA to the majors? Like Starlin Castro this past season? Seems pretty far fetched with the org's philosophy, but it could be possible.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  12. #41
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,114

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    What about the possibility of a jump from AA to the majors? Like Starlin Castro this past season? Seems pretty far fetched with the org's philosophy, but it could be possible.
    Not going to happen given who is in front of him.

  13. #42
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Sure, its anecdotal and I do expect Hamilton to do better in 2011 than Gregorius did in 2010 for Dayton, but my point was that its a big jump from Billings to Dayton. Gregorius and Hamilton have pretty similar skillsets though. Hamilton has plus plus speed while Gregorius is simply a plus runner, but aside from that, their tools are pretty similar while Gregorius might have better power in the future.

    Here is where I am at right now..... If Billy Hamilton were simply just fast, instead of super fast, and had the exact same everything else without the 30+ steal ability, some wouldn't be going so overboard on fast tracking him. In my opinion, being really fast isn't a reason to fast track someone. Fast track him because of his bat/glove, not his wheels. I don't see his bat warranting the idea that he should be fast tracked at this point.
    But he isn't just fast Doug he is super fast and super rangy and super athletic. And I noticed that you stated recently that speed is more of a complimentary asset while power is more than that. I have a problem with that, speed can be every bit the weapon power is and it's not as easily found. Rickey Henderson, Vince Coleman, Brett Butler the list goes on and on of guys whose speed was not just game changing but league/championship altering.

    Though I agree about fast tracking guys, not a fan of it but equally not a fan of the Reds sometimes snail pace.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 01-26-2011 at 01:21 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  14. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,045

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    What about the possibility of a jump from AA to the majors? Like Starlin Castro this past season? Seems pretty far fetched with the org's philosophy, but it could be possible.
    I'm still not sure why Elvis Andrus isn't the upside comp. Andrus was an international singing, so his path was different, but the position and skillsets seem pretty comparable. I'd imagine that's who the Reds see.

    Not that I recommend a big jump for Hamilton - Andrus walked into a DH lineup that could bat him ninth for a year.

  15. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,071

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Hamilton was a 3-sport guy in high school. He's played a lot less baseball than guys from California, Texas and the Caribbean. I'd like to see him play a full year in Dayton. It's a great place to play, and it'll be his first full season. I see next year as the better year to jump him -- who wants to play a full year in Bakersfield?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  16. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    757

    Re: Bavasi not afraid to fast track Hamilton

    Plus he will be playing with his future hall of famer Ronald Torres...


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25